A Saucy Wench
bending at the waist is something I specifically have to avoid. In fact I need to try really hard to preserve that concave low back at all times. I dont usually think of it as hips though. I tend to think head up and *ahem* tits up. Helps keep the shoulders from hunching and the lung space from being shortened.
Personally I always imagine a tow rope running up the hill right at about waist height. I "pull" myself up the hill with that rope. On a tough hill my fingers will even pinch close at the end of the armswing to "grab the rope". Keeps me looking UP the hill rather than at the feet.
I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets
"When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7
Hi WoodsLady,
I don't know if this'll help or not, since I'm racewalking instead of running. But on uphills I shorten my stride length a bit, and try to maintain the same turnover rate. I also work at staying vertical, and not bending at the waist or neck. I usually pass fading runners on uphills, and still have enough juice left to pick up some speed on the downhill beyond the crest.
I don't know about the 'pressing your hips into the hill' thing. That could lead to you actually leaning a bit backwards if you overdo it. When I'm working on staying perfectly vertical, I imagine a string coming out of my head, as if I were a puppet (no comments...), and that string is tight enough that it keeps my head up and my back straight. It's a mental/visual that works for me.
Jay
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I cannot express this any better than Jay and the Saucy Wench did. I really liked the way they "translated" what appears to me to be a very awkward piece of advice, that of "pressing your hips into the hill." I have no idea what that could mean. So listen to them as they have some great ideas.
I'd like to build on Jay's comment about turnover if I may. A few years ago I used to run with a guy whose stride length never varied, and when we got to a hill his form was very awkward and he was always dead at the top of the hill.
So I told him what Jay mentioned, about keeping the turnover the same but shortening the stride length just a bit, and it changed everything for him. So what happened was that as we would hit the foot of a hill I would say out loud, "ROTATIONS!", meaning let's keep the leg turnover, or rotations the same, and just shorten the stride a bit. This little mental reminder worked so well that I find myself unconsciously saying it to myself in all runs, even races, when I start up a hill. Works for me! Spareribs
Ennay, I had not thought about the fact that running without bending over is directly related to better lung capacity! I like the rope image, and will try that.
Coast walker and Ribs. OK. Same rotation, shorter steps! Look up, not down at the ground. Last spring in a 5K race, I was looking down at the ground, and missed a turn to a bike bridge that the course included, and took the next turn that I saw - having eventually looked at something other than my feet - , and had to take another bridge. I didn't realize my mistake until I was over the wrong bridge, and ended up adding about a tenth of a mile to my race. Just from looking at my feet on the hill. I am always trying things to improve my running, and in my beginners way, had even tried to lengthen my stride on the hills, and thinking about walking up steps to get myself further, but I see the better logic in what you are saying.
Thanks for the good advice, friends. Now - what to do about the hips. Should they be loose and sway a little back and forth, or is it better to think about keeping them always going forward. BTW, I am glad you people were also mystified by the advice to press your hips into the hill. Woodslady.
I've never once thought about hip placement, swaying or not swaying...just run.
As for foot placement, be really careful about rising up on your toes on a hill. That's how I got Plantar Fasciitis and spent 6 months unable to run.
MM #6177
I was thinking about that instruction today, as I ran up a short hill on my run. I didn't so much press my hips into the ground, as much as I felt my legs connect more firmly to the ground, I suppose. In yoga we talk about "rooting down" into the earth, and so maybe that's what the instruction was alluding to? All I know is that I shift into "hamstring gear" when I run up hills. Am I shortening my stride but keeping the turnover the same? Perhaps. All I know is that I barrel up my hills when I run, using the ample solidity of my thighs and glutes (lucky me to be so ample!). It's the downhills that I have trouble with, quite honestly.
I like threads like this, talking about running form and such. So much to learn, it's good.
who says life doesn't have a soundtrack?
Guess I'll throw in my two cents worth with what I've learned from trail running.
It can sometimes be a balance between being too far forward on the front of your feet and being too flat-footed. Except for really steep hills, you should pushing off from about the ball/front ball of your foot. You want your power to be coming from your quads, not your calves. Pushing too far back on the foot or too much off your toes will work the calves and tire them out fast.
My only other comment would be to watch an excess of knee lift. If you're bringing your legs up too high, you're wasting a lot of energy on the lifting. You don't want to be "springing" up the hill. Like the others said, you want to try and maintain the same rate of turnover, albeit at a slower pace. Think "baby steps" with good arm swing. Hill repeats are a wonderful way to work hills. Start at the bottom of a hill and try to maintain a level cadence all the way up. Walk or jog easy back down, turn around and do it again. Try 3 repeats once a week for a couple of weeks. If it's working out, add a repeat or go a little further up the hill. I usually make myself run to a certain spot, for a specific length of time (i.e. 1 minute), or for X-number of steps (i.e. L/R = 1 step).
A good exercise to help with arm swing strength: Get yourself a pair of weights. I started with 5 lbs., but had been doing quite a bit of strength training previously. Stand with feet slightly hip-width apart. Hold your arms at 90 degrees and swing them in an exaggerated running swing. Start with 30, counting a number for each swing (left arm - 1, right arm - 2) and work your way up to 50. I do these at least 2x a week and am now using 8 lb weights.
Good luck!
Leslie Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain -------------
Trail Runner Nation
Sally McCrae-Choose Strong
Bare Performance
OrangeMat. Thanks for the interesting yoga connected idea. "Rooting Down" is an interesting concept.
Fatozzig, thanks to you for many ideas. I have a lot of hills where I usually run, and need to take advantage of them to do hill repeats. For a year and a half, I ran in the woods, and had to start each time at the bottom of a very steep and rough trail. What a way to learn how to run. I started two years ago. Right now the woods are full of bear, there has been a cougar sighting near by, and my DH is ill, so couldn't come to find me in case I didn't come home in time. So, I now run usually on our road, which is up and down for more miles than I run. However, the hills are not as steep. I could do repeats. Yes, start slow and easy and few, and work up. It also seems to me that the best way to put down your foot is about in the middle - near the ball, where the center of gravity is. I often say to myself "lightly, lightly, lightly", and in that way avoid clomping down with my full foot. At the least, it gets me off my heel quickly.
Now, ladies, do the hips sway, or what? Is it called torque?
Woods - Sorry to hear your DH is so sick. Hope things improve soon.
Re the hips - I don't think my sway. I would think that if your hips are really pumping side to side, you're expending excess energy in that regard. If your natural gait doesn't have a lot of hip sway, I don't see that your running gait would.
Don't make the mistake I've been making of pushing off too close to the center of your foot. It puts excess pressure on your calves instead of on your quads where it's suppose to be. You really want to be on that ball of the foot, if not slightly to the front of ball. It's a balancing act of just enough forward that you're not pushing off with too flat of a foot, but not so much that you're using your toes. You should be able to tell during a repeat if you're using too much calf as opposed to quad.
Now see, this is interesting to me, since your instructions talk about what do to with the feet to enact something elsewhere in the legs. I usually think "I want to run using my calf power more", and so I just adjust my entire running form to accomplish that. Calves, quads, hamstrings, all that. Am I being clear? Let me try saying it this way: instead of saying "do A to accomplish B", I just say "do B" and it happens. Probably because my joints are so wobbly to begin with that the connected alignments don't translate well into other parts of me during running movement. In stationary positions, like standing yoga poses, I can do that, but it takes me a lot of effort. In other words, If I were to think solely about my foot strike as a way to fire up muscles elsewhere in my legs, I'd feel the brunt of that effort in my ankles while running uphill, due to my hypermobility syndrome tendencies.
Ah, and people say running is boring!