RA Coaching Forum

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Middle distance running (Read 416 times)

Pammie


    Ok need some advice, some pointers on how to construct my training I am looking to doing some short races this year 1500m - 3000m with the odd 5km on the roads. And i am looking for ways to construct my training Been running since 2003 (though 2007 was a rubbish year so lost a fair biit of fitness) started this year building my base again and am doing well I have a marathon in 3 weeks but after that and a recovery i hope to concentrate on the shorter stuff as i seem to have more of a liking for this now Have recently done 2 mile races both in the same time 7:43 but with no speedwork or taper so know this can be improved on. I am 40 in June, so i'm not a youngster any more So any thoughts ideas. Be free to ask me any questions that may help you offer me any advice.
      Yikes! When I first read your post I thought you had done 2 different 2 mile races in 7:43 each, and was going to send you to your respective national team coach. Your log isn't up to date, so I don't know exactly what you're doing now, but I'll assume you're doing a normal marathon plan without much/any speed and have worked up to at least one 18-20 mile run in between the second week of February and now. I would say to do a few things for starters 1. Add an interval workout once a week. Lots of people say to start tempo runs first, but in my opinion, short, fast running with the rests lets you recover so you don't lose your form as bad, which can help prevent injuries. No reason you can't do 3-6 miles warm up and cool down if you want to keep your milage up. 400m at 5K pace or a little faster with 200-400m at easy pace rest repeated 4-5 times is as good a start as any 2. Add a little speed to every run, but just with a few strides (40-100m accelerations focusing on form) at the end of your runs. Start this twice a week, and work into every run. Good for warm up for the interval session too. 3. Lower body weights if you have access to them, body weight squats and lunges if you don't. Hopping up stairs is good too. 4. Keep your long run, but it doesn't have to be the focus of your training, and 10 miles is plenty. Feel free to do more if you like, but it's not completely necessary. Good luck, and have fun on the track, I love it even though I'm often the oldest guy in the race by 10 years or more.
      Pammie


        Viich thank you apologies for the log thing did start keeping on here, But yes typical marathon schedule with no real speedwork majority at less than 70%HRR so i think i have set a good base Intervals do sound good, thanks for the ideas there (i guess i knew intervals were the way to go just what combinations) Yes i probably will keep a long run of sorts just not too long, i think its important for the endurance/strength side of running, i have found whilst doing marathon training it has helped me remain stronger in the 5km (i do a 5km race once a month same placeeach month)
          Viich's ideas will get you there faster, but I believe that improvement will continue longer and you will reach a higher peak with a more gradual approach. I would definitely not go immediately from no speedwork to doing hard intervals at 5k pace or quicker. I think that adding some strides is good, but also that you run easy on most days--you can still do strides on those days. " Lots of people say to start tempo runs first" Yes, and I'm one of those. Take a longer term view, rather than going for the quick fix. You won't be sorry. You are still young enough. I started back training 3 years ago, just before turning 60, and am still improving 3 years later. Left to my own devices I would have been in a big hurry, figuring I'm too old for that "long-term view" stuff, but luckily I got smart a coach who I trusted. Before I go on, I will be the first to admit that I'm not the one to be giving advice about the fine tuning of a schedule for middle distances. I'm only saying that you can't go wrong with a more gradual transition into that phase. Consdider this from Steve Scott, 136 sub-4 minute miles, most in the world: "During my career, the most important aspect of my training regime was strength. You can spend the rest of your life working on speed and make little progress, but if you spend the rest of your running career working on strength, you’ll always continue to improve. Improvements are also achieved by increasing your endurance. What do I mean by strength or endurance? Mileage, Mileage, Mileage! The more miles you can run, the stronger you will be."
          Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
            Viich's ideas will get you there faster, but I believe that improvement will continue longer and you will reach a higher peak with a more gradual approach. I would definitely not go immediately from no speedwork to doing hard intervals at 5k pace or quicker. I think that adding some strides is good, but also that you run easy on most days--you can still do strides on those days. " Lots of people say to start tempo runs first" Yes, and I'm one of those. Take a longer term view, rather than going for the quick fix. You won't be sorry. You are still young enough. I started back training 3 years ago, just before turning 60, and am still improving 3 years later. Left to my own devices I would have been in a big hurry, figuring I'm too old for that "long-term view" stuff, but luckily I got smart a coach who I trusted. Before I go on, I will be the first to admit that I'm not the one to be giving advice about the fine tuning of a schedule for middle distances. I'm only saying that you can't go wrong with a more gradual transition into that phase. Consdider this from Steve Scott, 136 sub-4 minute miles, most in the world: "During my career, the most important aspect of my training regime was strength. You can spend the rest of your life working on speed and make little progress, but if you spend the rest of your running career working on strength, you’ll always continue to improve. Improvements are also achieved by increasing your endurance. What do I mean by strength or endurance? Mileage, Mileage, Mileage! The more miles you can run, the stronger you will be." One more thing--I'd get more opinions about weight training for the legs. It's controversial--might be good and might not. I think the majority still believes, as do I, that hills are best for developing leg power for distance runners. 1500-5k is middle distance so it's more on the edge. I know that sprinters do lots of weights.
            Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
            Pammie


              Thanks Jim - Good points I like the words from Steve Scott, do remember him from years back. I know i won't drop the mileage as i love running everyday if i can majority of it easy it suits me. I have heard more miles gives you strength it suits my running and i got my 5km/10km PRs doing it this way and of course don't expect great things this year as i know i need to be patient As for the weights thing will ask my physio and the coaches from the track club i'm thinking of joining as a second claim Many thanks
                I'll chime in from the "more miles" camp. I'm fairly new to running - I think the vast majority of my PRs and faster pace are purely from more miles. I'm also a big fan of tempo runs - but like Jim said - the long term view for me - is build a nice base. As Scout likes to say - this is your cake. Then add tempo and interval runs - these are your icing.

                When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                Pammie


                  Thanks Bonkin I have seen you around RA on different threads but don't think we've spoke (apologies if we have lol) I have been doing the LHR training and my easy pace has dropped a minute since the beginning of the year without the fast stuff, out of the fast stuff i do like the tempo runs which i have done in the past, but this year decided to sort my base out first.


                  Future running partner.

                    While you are still doing base training, strides are a good way to keep your fast twitch muscles active and to maintiain good strength for faster middle distance paces. They also make it easier to transition into hill and track workouts. There are a number of ways to do these but, the keys are: -Full recovery between each of them. -They should be roughly 50 to 100m in length. -Start out slow during the first few sessions since your legs are not used to going that fast. If you run them to fast at first your legs will get sore or you'll injure your self. May 3k pace is a good place to start. -Only do about 3 of them the first time and each week add 1 more repetition until you reach 5 to 8. -Start each stride slow and gradually pick up the pace to the very end. -Do them immediately after a run while your legs are still warm -Stretch when you are finished. -FOCUS PRIMARILY ON PERFECT RUNNING POSTURE AND FORM. -It helps to do these on a very slight downhill slope. Over time you will notice that your leg turnover improves and that you can almost sprint comftorbly. These will improve your running economy. Also when running down hill in races you cruise much faster with the breaks off but without any extra effort. DO NOT RUN THESE TO THE POINT OF GETTING TIRED! I stop as soon as I start to breath heavily.
                    Pammie


                      Tfontana - thanks for that. apologies late replying not visited this group in a while I actually love strides, though not having done them regular for a while but will be starting them up once again Very good advice, much obliged Smile