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Coaches! Speedwork advice please! (Read 432 times)

Purdey


Self anointed title

    Hi guys and girls! I wonder if I could trouble you for the benefit of your collective expertise? I am trying to go under 60 mins for 10 miles (goal race 07 March). This is a big stretch target. Very big. Current level - 1/2M pr is 1:27 (but I think I'm in about 1:24 shape right now). Can run 10m in 65:00 during a steady training run. Mileage has been variable, but looking at around 100mpw for the next 2 months. This made up of doubles Mon - Fri, single run Sat and Sun. This breaks down to speedwork Tue and Thu, med long Wed (12 - 15, could be fartlek), long run Sun (20m ish), the remainder will be easy running. Haven't done much speedwork recently as I have been preparing for a 50m ultra - now that is out of the way I want to dramatically improve my speed at shorter distances in order to make my ultra cruising speed a bit easier/faster. My question is this: If I have 2 days per week of speedwork, what should I be doing to maximise my chances of going under the hour? Mile reps? 800m reps? Tempo runs? I know the answer is probably a mixture of these - but could anyone give me an idea of some decent workouts with my goal in mind? Many thanks

     

     

    jEfFgObLuE


    I've got a fever...

      Recommended training paces based on your 1:27:08 HM Recommended training paces based on a 1:24:00 HM Since 10 miles is a pretty long race still, and one that is raced below threshold, I think that one of your weekly sessions should be a long tempo. Your T-pace for 1:27:08 is 6:32/mi, but that's for a 20-minute tempo run. I think a 60-minute tempo run (plus the warm-up / cool-down) at an adjusted T-pace of ~6:53 would be good. This will help staminia, but based on your current conditioning, it won't kill you. So what to to with the other quality session? Well, I have a book called "Great Workouts for Popular Races" by Owen Anderson. Apparently, 10-milers aren't popular enough -- he skips from 10k to HM. So I'll give you some of the highlights of both of those distances. You could do a 10k-type speed workout one week, and an HM one the next or something. 10k workouts:3 x 8 minutes at current 10k pace, with 4:00 recovery. As you progress, add an interval, then start paring down time. (You can look at the links above to get a good idea of your 10k pace. •10k goal pace run, which is: 1000 meters at goal 10-K pace,2:00 rest+ 3000 meters at goal 10-K speed, 5:00 rest + 2000 meters at goal 10-K speed, 4-5:00 rest + 3000 meters at goal 10-K speed, 5:00 rest + 1000 meters at 10-K tempo, followed by easy cool-down jogging. You could do this at current 10k pace and still get a great workout. •The Herb Elliot I workout: 3 X 800 @ 5-K pace, 2:00R / 2 X 800 @ 10-K pace, 2:00R / 3200m@ 10-k pace, cooldown •Superset 3x(200-600-1600) with 3~4:00R. 200 is almost all out, the 600 is slightly slower, and the 1600 is at 10k pace. In a superset, there is no break between in the 200-600-1600 -- it's a continuous 2400m interval, but with adjusting paces. •10k treadmill hill 4x3:00@10k pace with 3% incline. 3:00 recoveries. Eventually build up to 8 intervals. •800-400-200-1000 800m at your current 10-K pace, 2:00R + 400m at current 5-K speed. 1:00R + 200m at est current mile speed, 30sec R + 1000m at 10k pace. 4:00R, then repeat the whole sequence. Half-Marathon Workouts:run some 10k races2x10 minutes @ 10k pace, 4~5:00R. Once you're comfortable, add a third 5-minute interval. •Supersets -3x(800-1600) with 5:00R. 800@10k pace, 1600@ goal HM pace. No break between 800-1600. -2x(400-1200-3200) with 5:00 R 400 very hard, 1200@10k pace, 3200@ goal HM pace. •Treadmill Hills: 2x1 mile at HM pace @ 3% incline, 4~5:00R. Build up to 4. Hopefully there's some workouts here you can pick and choose from. My thought is that you would get more out of the sessions geared towards a 10k runner, because you clearly have plenty of base. Don't forget to work some strides into your easy runs.

      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      Purdey


      Self anointed title

        Jeff, As ever you are the most comprehensive font of running knowledge that I have come across! Thanks for such a comprehensive reply. Cheers Tom

         

         


        Future running partner.

          Hi guys and girls! I wonder if I could trouble you for the benefit of your collective expertise? I am trying to go under 60 mins for 10 miles (goal race 07 March). This is a big stretch target. Very big. Current level - 1/2M pr is 1:27 (but I think I'm in about 1:24 shape right now). Can run 10m in 65:00 during a steady training run. Mileage has been variable, but looking at around 100mpw for the next 2 months. This made up of doubles Mon - Fri, single run Sat and Sun. This breaks down to speedwork Tue and Thu, med long Wed (12 - 15, could be fartlek), long run Sun (20m ish), the remainder will be easy running. Haven't done much speedwork recently as I have been preparing for a 50m ultra - now that is out of the way I want to dramatically improve my speed at shorter distances in order to make my ultra cruising speed a bit easier/faster. My question is this: If I have 2 days per week of speedwork, what should I be doing to maximise my chances of going under the hour? Mile reps? 800m reps? Tempo runs? I know the answer is probably a mixture of these - but could anyone give me an idea of some decent workouts with my goal in mind? Many thanks
          I agree with Jeff by saying All of the above. It's good to have variety each week and from week to week in your interval workouts and speed work by varying the distances and recoveries. If you keep repeating the same workout you become good at that workout but the overall affects on your conditioning goes down. Varying the workouts continues to keep the stress level high so you get more out of each workout. If you are doing 2 speed work days I would consider doing 3 different kinds of speed work. One for building leg strength and mechanics which is either done with fast repetitions with plenty of recovery or hard hill repetitions with lots of recovery. The second, for increasing V02 capacity, are interval sessions with short recoveries. Like the interval workouts Jeff shows were recovery time is less then the time it takes to run the hard parts. The third type is to build stamina or to raise your LT and buffer lactic acid. This is done with tempo runs and cruise intervals which are like the workouts run at at or between 10k and Half marathon pace that Jeff shows. When you are about 3 or 4 weeks out from your target 10 mile race/'s start doing tempo runs at your goal 10 mile race pace or sub 6min/mi. This will help you get used to the pacing, improve your mechanics at that pace and most importantly boost your self confidence.
          jEfFgObLuE


          I've got a fever...

            Purdey, I should also add that Anderson recommends a few workouts for all distances that are great for overall speed. Lactate stackers: 8~12 x 1 min very hard, with 2 min recovery. His theory is that this workout pushes you way above lactate threshold and keeps you there. I don't know about that, but I do know that it's hard. v-VO2max workouts: Okay, we all know that VO2max is this training variable that relates to our body's oxygen uptake. Higher is better, but two runners can have the same VO2max, but the more efficient runner will be faster. Anyhow, to avoid getting wrapped up in that, the idea is to find your v-VO2max (velocity at VO2max -- the speed that elicits VO2max). To find your v-VO2max, you run a 6-minute time trial all-out. Calculate your average pace -- that's your v-VO2max. Whereas VO2max isn't always a perfect predictor of performance (Frank Shorter comes to mind, low VO2max for an elite), your speed at vVO2max (whatever you VO2max happens to be) is a great predictor of performance. Training at v-VO2max is great speedwork. The workouts: •6x200m @ v-VO2max pace, with equal time recoveries (recovery jog is same duration as the interval time) •5x400m @ v-VO2max pace, with equal time recoveries (recovery jog is same duration as the interval time) For both of these, build up to 15 minutes total interval times. •5 x 3 minutes @ v-VO2max pace, 3 minutes recovery.

            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

            Purdey


            Self anointed title

              Outstanding. I seriously don't think I can make sub-60. But it's going to be fun painful trying.

               

               

                No advice here, but I wanted to wish you good luck in your race.

                Ryan

                Purdey


                Self anointed title

                  Ahhhh. Thank you very much. Big grin

                   

                   

                  jEfFgObLuE


                  I've got a fever...

                    Hey, Purdey. One more for you. My personal favorite all-purpose interval workout is one I got from my old XC coach. I like it because it's all time-based (so need to go to the track, not that it matters in a Garmin world), and also a bit of a progression, called a 2x(5-3-1). Do a couple miles of warm-up. Then: 5 minutes hard (5k~10k pace) 5 minutes easy 3 minutes hard (3k~5k pace) 3 minutes easy 1 minute hard (blast it) 1 minute easy then repeat the whole sequence. Follow with a good cooldown. You'll need it. I've experimented with 1-3-5-5-3-1 and 1-3-5-1-3-5, but have found the 5-3-1-5-3-1 to be the most challenging sequence. Because the first time through, you blast that 1-minute, and then BOOM, you're into the next 5-minute before you can catch your breath. I also like that through each set, you're getting progressively faster. If you're pressed for time, you can do it as 2x(3-2-1). Not as much quality running (12 minutes v. 18), but shorter recoveries, so it presents its own challenge.

                    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                    Purdey


                    Self anointed title

                      Jeff- that looks evil. As you say, if you double it up you are into your 2nd 5min effort after just 60secs rec following a 1min all out effort - hard stuff. Will definitely try this one on Thursday. Just back from a nice speedwork intro/taster: 2 mi warm up @ 7:30 pace 5 x 1km @ 3:29 (5:40 pace ish I think) 2 mi warm down @ 7:30 pace I might keep this session as a regular staple - increasing number of reps, or increasing pace, as I get fitter. Just realised I only have 8 speedwork sessions until my goal race. Hmmmm ... don't think that is enough. Never mind - will be fun trying!

                       

                       

                      Purdey


                      Self anointed title

                        Globule - I did the session you recommended: http://www.runningahead.com/logs/a6651ce14cc64c9bb812559b63ff4f59/workouts/522a8261d28e40cc8c81ea2fab35ca0f Somehow I remembered it as 5-4-3-2-1-5-4-3-2-1 (!!!!!!!!!) and not 5-3-1-5-3-1 as you had suggested... It was hard. Dude, it was hard.

                         

                         

                        jEfFgObLuE


                        I've got a fever...

                          Globule - I did the session you recommended: http://www.runningahead.com/logs/a6651ce14cc64c9bb812559b63ff4f59/workouts/522a8261d28e40cc8c81ea2fab35ca0f Somehow I remembered it as 5-4-3-2-1-5-4-3-2-1 (!!!!!!!!!) and not 5-3-1-5-3-1 as you had suggested... It was hard. Dude, it was hard.
                          No s**t it was hard, f**khead. You ran a s**tload of extra intervals. Wink The turn (from 1 back to 5) hurts, doesn't it? Evil grin [Modified because I forgot where I was].

                          On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                          Purdey


                          Self anointed title

                            No s**t it was hard, f**khead.
                            pod
                            The turn (from 1 back to 5) hurts, doesn't it? Evil grin
                            Just a bit.