Running-Wizard

1

4 day Half training plan (Read 38 times)

Supersono99


    I recall reading some posts about glitches with the program when ordering a 4 day per week plan. I can't remember if that was only affecting marathon plans. I enjoy 4 days per week, I think I would struggle maintaining 5 days per week at this point in my life.

     

    Have you done a 4 day per week HM program? Are there any issues with that plan?

      The thread you are looking for is The Longest Long Run
      JML


        I did a 4-day HM plan last fall.  It was glitch free and resulted in an almost 10 minute PR.

         

        Like you, I struggle to fit in more than 4 days / week (due to commuting).  I am currently using a 5-day plan for a fall marathon and the extra day of training is hard to fit in.

         

        My only advice to you on running on a 4-day / week plan is to make sure that you get the recommended miles in and try not to wander too far off the plan.  It will work if you follow the plan closely but I find that there is less margin for error when I am running fewer workouts per week.

         2014 goals: run a bunch....race some.....repeat...

        Supersono99


          Thank you, Christi, I will check out that thread.

           

          JML, do you think the 4 day plan would still be glitch free since I run about 3 min/mile slower than you or that wouldn't matter in the plan's calculation?

          JML


            I would be curious to see what it comes up with for your longest long aerobic run.  I think that some people have been concerned that the long run seems short if you normally run at a slightly slower pace.  In your case, I don't think that it will be an issue given your running history and the fact that you have some longer runs in your log from earlier in the year.

             

            Even though the long run is important, I have come to realize that it is the cumulative effect of all of the training that makes this plan really work for me.  I think that the key combination that really drove my fitness gains during my HM cycle was the combination of the  PCR on Saturday followed by the long aerobic run on Sunday.   The first couple of weeks of this were a little daunting, but I quickly became comfortable running on Sunday on legs that were already tired.

             

            Good luck!

             2014 goals: run a bunch....race some.....repeat...

            Supersono99


              Thanks, JML. I'm excited to start the half plan. Ill be 24 weeks out 9/8, so I have from now until then to continue building. In my current RW plan, I'm in my taper week, although I don't have a race planned. You referenced longer runs in the beginning of the year in my log, anything before my mile time trial in March was run/walk. Mid-March is when I started the RW 5K plan to build up from 30 minutes runnjng to where I am now at 1h16m of running. I really like the plan and it's variety.

              I think even if my plan maxed at 2 hours for the LR that I'd still be fine on race day.

              JML


                Even though you do not have a race on the calendar for the current plan, are you planning on doing some sort of time trial before you kick off the HM plan?  My advice would be to either find a race or do a time trial so that you have an accurate gauge of your fitness for the next cycle.  You will probably surprise yourself with the results.  Having gone through a complete plan, you are probably capable of a pretty good 5K at this point.

                 2014 goals: run a bunch....race some.....repeat...

                Supersono99


                  I did surprise myself on my first PCR last Saturday. I ran my 26 min PCR at a pace faster than my mile time trial in March Smile I still think I could run a tad faster, but I wanted to be sure I could hold the pace for the duration. I am sad that weather forced me to miss Sunday's LR, but I don't run in lightning. I will try to run a 5K to gauge my progress, I'm just not sure if I'll do an actual race or just do it on my own. I think I Have one more PCR, I may try to go a tick faster on that one.

                    Supersono:

                     

                    I was checking out your log and am a bit troubled with some of the information there.  So obviously you did a mile time test in March where you got 11:17.  It seems that you weren't too happy with that result, for whatever the reason, because, if you decide to use that as the current fitness level, you should be getting about 14-minute-mile pace for your workout.  Furthermore, you seem to have been doing quite a few runs way above 1-hour but you decided to use 30-minutes as "the longest run in duration you feel comfortable doing right now"???

                     

                    Another thing is; the whole idea of PCR, actually starting way before that with Out & Back, is to gauge your progress.  Although all the numbers provided in the plan is still nothing but a guide, there is a certain "educated guess" in a way that it SHOULD progress one week to the next.  Looking at your log, your pace seems to be all over the place; you started out O&B at about 11:40 pace, which is probably correct...if you were about 9:45-mile person...in March and by April you were doing O&B at 10:40 pace.  Then your O&B pace started to fluctuate between 10:40 and 12:09 which happened to be slower than your Long Aerobic Run???  Granted, it sort of depends on your day's physical condition (using Recovery Indicators Index perhaps???).  We didn't just slap different names on each day's workout.  Each has specific purpose to it; and the flow of the entire plan has a specific purpose to it as well.

                     

                    That said, good job on progressing to the point where you can actually run 2.5 mile of PCR at faster pace than the initial 1-mile time trial.  We do see quite a few subjects (users) improving their PR in preliminary races before THE target race.  It is quite amazing how, once everything is put together in a correct manner, that "running faster" all of a sudden becomes the second nature.  It's like "having wings on your feet" as Lorraine Moller would put it.  Just be careful not to overdo things a few weeks before the target race.  At this point, don't make your intervals too hard; what you did is right--stopping after the third 4-minute run instead of keeping on going to do the fourth one.  Keep it shorter--2 minutes max--and work on running fast SMOOTH.  You'll be surprised how easy it is to run faster as long as you don't push yourself too much.  Remember; if in doubt, do less.

                    I did surprise myself on my first PCR last Saturday. I ran my 26 min PCR at a pace faster than my mile time trial in March Smile I still think I could run a tad faster, but I wanted to be sure I could hold the pace for the duration. I am sad that weather forced me to miss Sunday's LR, but I don't run in lightning. I will try to run a 5K to gauge my progress, I'm just not sure if I'll do an actual race or just do it on my own. I think I Have one more PCR, I may try to go a tick faster on that one.

                    Supersono99


                      Nobby, thank you for responding.

                       

                      I don't expect you to remember things from months ago! I posted somewhere in RA about finding a plan other than C25K where I would be able to lose the walk breaks I had been dependent on for 3 years. You responded and offered to let me try out a RW plan and to provide feedback as I was under the impression you may be trying to find a way to generate a RW plan to accommodate beginners. In corresponding with you during the process to acquire a plan, you directed me to use 30 minutes as the longest run I felt comfortable running. Prior to my time trial, remember, I had always run r/w intervals either at a 3:1 or 2:1 ratio. That is why my log looks like I had several runs over an hour prior to initiating my RW plan  Oh, and my mile time trial, in my opinion in hindsight, was not reflective of my true abilities because I didn't know *if* I could even run for ~10 minutes without walking and was too inexperienced to run it correctly in a manner to get truly useful information. After completing workouts in the plan, I ran it more like an O&B as I held back for the first 3/4 of the mile to insure I could complete it then I turned up the pace when I knew I was going to finish. Smile

                       

                      As far as my paces being all over the place, I think in the very beginning I was trying to find what was correct and learning(still am) to run by RPE and feel. I changed my Garmin in the beginning to only show duration and you directed me to run by duration instead of a goal mileage for each run because my goal for the program was only to go from running 2:1 intervals to running 1:16 without walking. In that regard, this program has been a huge success! Back to the beginning and my paces, I am sure I ran some early runs too fast. I ran a LR too fast with a friend, I'm sure of it as I kept having to tell her we needed to slow down so I could talk in better sentences. I also ran a fartlek with her(she is faster than I) and ran that incorrectly as it was "work" instead of "play" because I used her as a rabbit between recoveries. Those things early on led to some paces all over the place. Also, I live in FL, we did enjoy a longer than usual period of comfortable temps/humidity, but I believe my log reflects the point in time when the humidity hit 100% and temps soared.

                       

                      Does that make more sense or do you think I am doing something wrong?

                      Supersono:

                       

                      I was checking out your log and am a bit troubled with some of the information there.  So obviously you did a mile time test in March where you got 11:17.  It seems that you weren't too happy with that result, for whatever the reason, because, if you decide to use that as the current fitness level, you should be getting about 14-minute-mile pace for your workout.  Furthermore, you seem to have been doing quite a few runs way above 1-hour but you decided to use 30-minutes as "the longest run in duration you feel comfortable doing right now"???

                       

                      Another thing is; the whole idea of PCR, actually starting way before that with Out & Back, is to gauge your progress.  Although all the numbers provided in the plan is still nothing but a guide, there is a certain "educated guess" in a way that it SHOULD progress one week to the next.  Looking at your log, your pace seems to be all over the place; you started out O&B at about 11:40 pace, which is probably correct...if you were about 9:45-mile person...in March and by April you were doing O&B at 10:40 pace.  Then your O&B pace started to fluctuate between 10:40 and 12:09 which happened to be slower than your Long Aerobic Run???  Granted, it sort of depends on your day's physical condition (using Recovery Indicators Index perhaps???).  We didn't just slap different names on each day's workout.  Each has specific purpose to it; and the flow of the entire plan has a specific purpose to it as well.

                       

                      That said, good job on progressing to the point where you can actually run 2.5 mile of PCR at faster pace than the initial 1-mile time trial.  We do see quite a few subjects (users) improving their PR in preliminary races before THE target race.  It is quite amazing how, once everything is put together in a correct manner, that "running faster" all of a sudden becomes the second nature.  It's like "having wings on your feet" as Lorraine Moller would put it.  Just be careful not to overdo things a few weeks before the target race.  At this point, don't make your intervals too hard; what you did is right--stopping after the third 4-minute run instead of keeping on going to do the fourth one.  Keep it shorter--2 minutes max--and work on running fast SMOOTH.  You'll be surprised how easy it is to run faster as long as you don't push yourself too much.  Remember; if in doubt, do less.

                        Ahhhh...!  Yeah, now I remember...kinda...!! ;o)  Yes, I do remember.  And, yes, that run-walk thing and move on to continuous running...!

                         

                        In regards to pacing, well, just be aware that different workout has different effort level (=pace).  The point is; you apply those "effort"--may not be the exact minutes-per-mile but the effort level--to those workout.  For example, you'll have O&B, or PCR, the day before Long Aerobic Run.  You want O&B to be a bit faster, harder effort (but shorter in duration), followed then by a long easier run.  If the paces for these workouts are very similar, you'll lose the benefit of this "pattern".  My wife tends to run just the same pace all the time.  Even for an interval workout, she tends to do the fast segment only slightly faster than her regular run pace and run the recovery part too fast.  The whole idea is; you go the recovery nice and really easy so you can run the fast part FAST.  So those effort fluctuation should be followed.  Of course, some days you are not as "up for it" and your O&B may even turn out to be nothing more than an easy jog!  That's fine and your Recovery Indicators may even tell you to take it easy.  But then you should write down, on your log, as "Jog", not "O&B".  This is because, when you look back, you may see a certain pattern to yourself.  You may have a hard time doing O&B or PCR the day before Long Aerobic Run...  With your log, we're not looking for a text-book log that looks perfect; you'll have to write down quite precisely how you did and what happened; so you can follow that pattern the next time.

                        Nobby, thank you for responding.

                         

                        I don't expect you to remember things from months ago! I posted somewhere in RA about finding a plan other than C25K where I would be able to lose the walk breaks I had been dependent on for 3 years. You responded and offered to let me try out a RW plan and to provide feedback as I was under the impression you may be trying to find a way to generate a RW plan to accommodate beginners. In corresponding with you during the process to acquire a plan, you directed me to use 30 minutes as the longest run I felt comfortable running. Prior to my time trial, remember, I had always run r/w intervals either at a 3:1 or 2:1 ratio. That is why my log looks like I had several runs over an hour prior to initiating my RW plan  Oh, and my mile time trial, in my opinion in hindsight, was not reflective of my true abilities because I didn't know *if* I could even run for ~10 minutes without walking and was too inexperienced to run it correctly in a manner to get truly useful information. After completing workouts in the plan, I ran it more like an O&B as I held back for the first 3/4 of the mile to insure I could complete it then I turned up the pace when I knew I was going to finish. Smile

                         

                        As far as my paces being all over the place, I think in the very beginning I was trying to find what was correct and learning(still am) to run by RPE and feel. I changed my Garmin in the beginning to only show duration and you directed me to run by duration instead of a goal mileage for each run because my goal for the program was only to go from running 2:1 intervals to running 1:16 without walking. In that regard, this program has been a huge success! Back to the beginning and my paces, I am sure I ran some early runs too fast. I ran a LR too fast with a friend, I'm sure of it as I kept having to tell her we needed to slow down so I could talk in better sentences. I also ran a fartlek with her(she is faster than I) and ran that incorrectly as it was "work" instead of "play" because I used her as a rabbit between recoveries. Those things early on led to some paces all over the place. Also, I live in FL, we did enjoy a longer than usual period of comfortable temps/humidity, but I believe my log reflects the point in time when the humidity hit 100% and temps soared.

                         

                        Does that make more sense or do you think I am doing something wrong?

                        Supersono99


                          Nobby, I did notce and even commented to my husband that in the last couple of weeks my RPE matched the workout description yet my pace came out the same. I can tell you there was one instance without looking at my log where I ran an out and back and felt like I was really, really working and then ran a very comfortable and easy aerobc run yet both had a pace of 12:07, iirc. How does tha happen? That has been frustrating me as of late.

                          I have a tendency to run comfortable and ease up when it's not comfortable, soI've really been trying to vary my paces. It's not happening but I don't know why when my RPE is different.

                          Any sipuggestion or thoughts on why that would happen?

                           

                          Ahhhh...!  Yeah, now I remember...kinda...!! ;o)  Yes, I do remember.  And, yes, that run-walk thing and move on to continuous running...!

                           

                          In regards to pacing, well, just be aware that different workout has different effort level (=pace).  The point is; you apply those "effort"--may not be the exact minutes-per-mile but the effort level--to those workout.  For example, you'll have O&B, or PCR, the day before Long Aerobic Run.  You want O&B to be a bit faster, harder effort (but shorter in duration), followed then by a long easier run.  If the paces for these workouts are very similar, you'll lose the benefit of this "pattern".  My wife tends to run just the same pace all the time.  Even for an interval workout, she tends to do the fast segment only slightly faster than her regular run pace and run the recovery part too fast.  The whole idea is; you go the recovery nice and really easy so you can run the fast part FAST.  So those effort fluctuation should be followed.  Of course, some days you are not as "up for it" and your O&B may even turn out to be nothing more than an easy jog!  That's fine and your Recovery Indicators may even tell you to take it easy.  But then you should write down, on your log, as "Jog", not "O&B".  This is because, when you look back, you may see a certain pattern to yourself.  You may have a hard time doing O&B or PCR the day before Long Aerobic Run...  With your log, we're not looking for a text-book log that looks perfect; you'll have to write down quite precisely how you did and what happened; so you can follow that pattern the next time.