Running-Wizard

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Questions on my plan (Read 48 times)

perryw


    I'm wondering if I messed my plan up when I bought it a couple days ago.  I ran a half marathon last fall in 2:11:20 (10:02 pace) and an 8k in April in 47:51 (9:38 pace).  I think I tried those and the VO2max interview, but I can't remember what I used for the plan.  Thing is, on both of those races I knew I wasn't going to be close to personal records or prior times, so I didn't push myself and enjoyed the scenery.  I think I had a pretty good negative split on the half because I was trying to beat the rain that was coming Wink

    I did a 10k in December that I just remembered, so I didn't use it when I purchased the plan.  It was 57:04 (9:12 pace) and I do remember putting forth a decent amount of effort in that one.  There was also a 5k in late November at 8:40 pace that I also forgot about.  They are in my RA log but I didn't look at that when I was buying the plan. 

    I'm looking at plan and, I'm sure you hear this all the time, the paces seem awfully slow.  I've done a couple 2 mile runs this week in the 10:40-ish pace range just to see how that feels and I felt like a turtle.  I look at the paces for the plan and most everything is below that; nothing faster until 5 weeks in.  

    Would that 10k time have made any difference in my plan?  How about a 5k?  The plan doesn't start until June 17, anyone know if it's possible to revise it since I spaced those two races?  I'm wondering if I'm not selling myself short by having the paces in the plan feel so slow.  I realize I'll be running 5 days a week, 1 day more than I've ever tried, so things should feel slow... but...?

      When calculating vomax you should use your race effort race times, you want your best effort for those numbers, that way the plan can train you and push younto get your best possible result. I would email nobby or Eric and see if one of them can change things up for you
      perryw


        Ok, that's what I thought.  I used the comment/question form on RW and the emailed bounced saying nobby415 failed because the mailbox is full or the message was too long (it was basically what I posted).  I sent a real brief note to tech support notifying of the bounce.  Not sure if they go to different email addresses, but that note didn't bounce.

        perryw


          Another question - How do the recovery indicators work with weight loss?  I think part of my injury problems, that I'm hoping will also be addressed by this more sensible plan, are caused by being overweight.  Too big, too fast, too much too soon = overuse injury.  I've lost nearly 30 pounds this year and I need to lose at least 30 more to get in to "normal" weight range.  I figure that will be 25 by the time the plan starts in another month... will I freak the recovery indicators out?

          zonykel


            You should see a big number for the pace and underneath it, there is a range in parenthesis. You can run at the faster pace if you feel comfortable with it.

            perryw


              My last PCR in the plan is a 2.5 - 3.5 mile run at 11:16 - 9:42 and that's like 23 weeks from now.

               

              Two weeks ago I did 3.4 miles at 9:18 average and didn't feel incredibly challenged.  Mile splits were 9:20, 9:27 (I think I stopped to tie my shoe!), 9:19, and 8:43 pace for the last .4.  I'd say maybe a 7 for RPE.

               

              So I guess I did mess up the plan, huh?

              superbunny


              Lump Off

                I just purchased a plan as well and it starts in a few weeks (24 week marathon plan).  I used a 10k time of 54Tight lippedx so my paces might be close to yours.  I think my VO2max was 36.  I thought the training paces looked slow as well but when I looked at the weekly mileage over the course of the plan, I decided that those easy paces might be nice.  And, of course, there is the range for target paces.

                 

                So, for comparison, if I just use the target numbers, my fastest pace the 1st week(24 weeks out) is 10:24 for the out & back and I do 47.5 miles that week.

                 

                At 20 weeks out, my fastest pace is 10:18.

                My highest mileage week will be 62.

                 

                I'm thinking this plan will work well for me; I'm starting during the hot summer months so my training paces will slow anyways and I've never been good about staying consistent.  If I follow this plan, I think I'll see a good improvement.  If the improvement comes without too much tiredness, you can bet I'll start increasing my paces.

                 

                Not sure if this will help but here are your equivalent paces using your 10k time.

                1 Mile                  8:14

                3K                     15:56

                5K                     27:22

                5 Miles               45:20

                10 Miles           1:34:30

                Half Marathon   2:05:55

                Marathon         4:22:31

                zonykel


                  My last PCR in the plan is a 2.5 - 3.5 mile run at 11:16 - 9:42 and that's like 23 weeks from now.

                   

                  Two weeks ago I did 3.4 miles at 9:18 average and didn't feel incredibly challenged.  Mile splits were 9:20, 9:27 (I think I stopped to tie my shoe!), 9:19, and 8:43 pace for the last .4.  I'd say maybe a 7 for RPE.

                   

                  So I guess I did mess up the plan, huh?

                  I'm really not sure. I'm guessing once Nobby returns he can answer you. I'm just a user. If the paces you mention don't seem that challenging, I'd expect to see better PRs from what you've posted.

                    i think the most important thing is that you didn't enter true race efforst into calculating your VOMax...you really need to enter the races you ran as hard as you could, entering race numbers where you didn't give it your all is probably the biggest reason your paces are so off. If you have time, jump in this weekend run a 5K all out...as hard as you have ever raced, then try to contact them again and see if they will reset the plan with the newest race result, it seems like you are really quickly improving right now and your old data is just not representative of how you are performing now

                    perryw


                      Well, I didn't hear back from nobby but Eric was able to reset my plan so I can modify it again.

                       

                      Today I ran a slow 4.1 miles at an average pace of 10:45 and average heart rate of 158BPM (maybe slightly lower, my Garmin HRM acted wonky the first 1.5 miles).

                       

                      Putting in the 5k raised my VO2max by 2-ish points.  My first aerobic run of the plan has me doing 4 miles at 11:48 - 10:15 and 144 - 166 BPM.  So, it would seem my current fitness matches up pretty well with that range.

                       

                      I can start the plan 6/16 (20 weeks out) and try to get another 5k in between now and then.  I'm doing another 8k next weekend, but it will be my second ever trail run so the time won't be useful.  I'll hold off on finalizing the plan until the last minute I think.

                      perryw


                        Next questions.

                         

                        My first "Easy Fartlek" is 26:00 at 10:52 pace / 2.5 miles.  The description says 10 - 15 minute warmup and cool down for the run... How do I do that?  If I warm up and cool down for 10 minutes each, then am I left with just 6 minutes of speed playing?  Or does the time not include the warm up and cool down, which would turn this run in to 4.5 - 5 miles?

                         

                        And a scheduling question.  My plan looks like Monday fartlek (rank 5), Tuesday aerobic (rank 3), Wednesday rest, Thursday strides (rank 6), Friday out and back (rank 2), Saturday long (rank 1), and Sunday rest.  I do a group run on Thursday nights where our basic route is about 4.5 miles, which is perfect for my first couple aerobic runs, but not so good for strides.  Is it possible for me to rearrange the schedule somehow - as in, on the computer versus just in my head?  Do strides on Tuesday and aerobic on Thursday?  Or mix a few days around?  I think doing Friday and Saturday in order is important, but how flexible is the rest of the order?

                         

                        I do tend to overthink things and I can tell I'm doing that here.  Wink I do tendency towards overuse injuries, so I want to set myself up for success

                          Can you run/jog easy on Tuesday and add strides to the Thursday run? Seems like the simplest solution?

                           

                          You can rearrange the plan using the RunningAhead "Training Plan" function. Select the plan, hit edit, and you can drag/drop workouts to different days or create new ones. (Or if you're me, you can accidentally delete a bunch of stuff and never get it back. But that wasn't actually as much fun as I just made it sound.)

                          zonykel


                            My first "Easy Fartlek" is 26:00 at 10:52 pace / 2.5 miles.  The description says 10 - 15 minute warmup and cool down for the run... How do I do that?  If I warm up and cool down for 10 minutes each, then am I left with just 6 minutes of speed playing?  Or does the time not include the warm up and cool down, which would turn this run in to 4.5 - 5 miles?

                             

                            I had a similar question when I first started. The warm up and cool down are separate from the workout. So you warm up for 10-15 minutes, do the easy fart-lake for 26 minutes, and then you cool down for 10-15 minutes.

                            perryw


                              Can you run/jog easy on Tuesday and add strides to the Thursday run? Seems like the simplest solution?

                               

                              You can rearrange the plan using the RunningAhead "Training Plan" function. Select the plan, hit edit, and you can drag/drop workouts to different days or create new ones. (Or if you're me, you can accidentally delete a bunch of stuff and never get it back. But that wasn't actually as much fun as I just made it sound.)

                               

                              I don't think the strides would quite cover the distance.  Well, I guess they could... 6-10 x 100m w/ 300m cool down and a mile or so on both sides for warm up and cool down.  But I guess the "problem" is that I sometimes run with another person on Thursdays and they wouldn't necessarily want to do the strides.

                               

                              Based on the answer to my fartlek question, I think doing that back-to-back with the strides may not be the best of ideas. That sounds like too much "fast" running on consecutive days.

                               

                              I have a 4 mile loop around my neighborhood, though it is mostly flat (I'm in central Indiana).  It should end up being just the right distance for the first few fartlek runs anyways; plan isn't finalized so I can't see the other distances yet.  I've also found a nice stretch of path about 1.2 miles from my house that I was planning on using for the stride workouts.

                                 

                                I don't think the strides would quite cover the distance.  Well, I guess they could... 6-10 x 100m w/ 300m cool down and a mile or so on both sides for warm up and cool down.  But I guess the "problem" is that I sometimes run with another person on Thursdays and they wouldn't necessarily want to do the strides.

                                 

                                Based on the answer to my fartlek question, I think doing that back-to-back with the strides may not be the best of ideas. That sounds like too much "fast" running on consecutive days.

                                 

                                I have a 4 mile loop around my neighborhood, though it is mostly flat (I'm in central Indiana).  It should end up being just the right distance for the first few fartlek runs anyways; plan isn't finalized so I can't see the other distances yet.  I've also found a nice stretch of path about 1.2 miles from my house that I was planning on using for the stride workouts.

                                Unless they've changed what strides are (my plan with strides is 2 yr old), I don't think they're about covering distance, but running about 100m relaxed and fast, jogging back to recover, repeat. It should be something that's fairly easy to tack on at the end of an easy run. (oops, I  just noticed there's a Variation for running continuously, but didn't clip that part of the description, so maybe that's where the 300m recovery you referred to comes from.) The RPE is (or was in old description) about 6-7 where it was difficult or very difficult to talk. Strides are short enough that they're not stressing that energy system for very long AND there's recovery between them. They're about running fast and relaxed.

                                 

                                Fartleks as described in my programs have always been more on the "easy" end of things where you can talk.

                                 

                                (Note: I do everything by time and effort / breathing / talk test because I'm usually on hilly trails, mostly snow covered between Oct and April. I found a strip of sidewalk adjacent to elem school parking lot that was usually cleared of snow that worked for my strides.)

                                "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
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