Running-Wizard

1

Running-wizard a reasonable plan for old timer? (Read 42 times)

northernman


Fight The Future

    Hi Folks,

    just stepping in to test the waters. Just finished running Boston this week, and looking for a new training plan to try out for my next marathon in early October. I've been running for about 6 years or so, and have logged about 14,500 miles in that time, so I already have a pretty solid base. No injuries to speak of. In the past, I have used Pfitzinger's plans and also some others. I do like to run lots of easy miles, with occasional hills (which I also like) and I'm OK with intervals (although I don't really like them all that much). I'd like to break through 3:20, which is only 2 minutes faster than my PR last year, but I can tell I'm rapidly decaying as I age, so will be hard. I'm wondering if the Running Wizard plan would be worth trying, or if it is designed primarily for relatively new runners. Lots of the talk seems to focus on building base and preventing injuries, neither of which is my primary problem right now. Thanks for any insights!

      It's for all levels. When you sign up, you fill out a questionnaire about recent race times, your current longest run, how long you have been running, and it tailors the program to your ability. I know SubDood is in the middle of a marathon plan right now, if you want to log stalk Smile I'm training for a half, so can't comment specifically on the marathon plan. I will say I'm not a beginner - i've run probably 12 hm's- and find it exactly the right level of challenging.

      JML


        Further on runharrietrun's point, the Lydiard based plan is tailored to your individual abilities and is not specifically for new runners at all.  There is flexibility in the plan to handle both newer runners and those who already have a strong base (14K+ miles is a BIG aerobic base).  The key takeaway if you are considering RunningWizard is that it will prepare you to run your absolute best on race day.  The sequential building of the different facets of running fitness is what really sets it apart for me.  Nobby likes to call this 'Flow' which I think is an apt description of the fitness build that occurs in the plan.

         

        I used it to run a half marathon last November which resulted in a huge PR.  On race day, I arrived at the starting line in peak condition and ran a negative split race with a time that I previously had not thought possible.  Being able to turn up the pace in the last three miles and have the capacity to do so was a new experience which I attribute to the well rounded running fitness that I developed following the RW plan.

         2014 goals: run a bunch....race some.....repeat...

        northernman


        Fight The Future

          thanks very much, both of you! sounds like it's definitely worth a try!


          Hungry

            It's for all levels. When you sign up, you fill out a questionnaire about recent race times, your current longest run, how long you have been running, and it tailors the program to your ability. I know SubDood is in the middle of a marathon plan right now, if you want to log stalk Smile

            Hi northernman! Wow, I've got a bunch of comments and questions for you. First, feel free to "log stalk" to see the types of runs and distances I'm currently doing; I might be a good reference point for you. Second, how far "north" are you? I see that you ran Twin Cities last October, so perhaps you are in Minnesota? I live just west of the Twin Cities, so maybe the same neck of the woods? Third, were you the guy in the red "Flash" costume running the Twin Cities Marathon (red lycra from head to foot, and NO SHOES!)? I ran TCM last fall too, and I think our finish times are about 20 seconds apart(!), so we may have crossed paths during the race. Fourth, how old are you, "old timer"? I will turn 48 in a few weeks, but I do not feel like I am rapidly decaying. Actually, I feel that getting back into running (after a period of years of not running) has helped me reverse the age-based decay process. Fifth, CONGRATS on qualifying for and finishing Boston this year!!!

            Ok, I am currently about 15 or 16 weeks into a 24-week Marathon training plan with Running Wizard. I will run Grandma's Marathon in Duluth on June 22. Last year, I did an 18-week Hal Higdon (Intermediate?) plan to train for Twin Cities. So far, I have really enjoyed the progression of phases in the RW plan, each phase building on the previous phase. It seems to make a lot of sense to me. The Higdon plan worked reasonably well for me last year, but I felt very tired and sore at various points in that program. In the RW plan, I have put in MUCH more mileage, yet I feel quite a bit stronger overall, and less prone to getting injured.

            I guess I'll have some definitive data for you on June 22nd. If I improve on my TCM time, I'll be pretty happy. I'll be happy to answer specific questions you might have based strictly on my own experience so far.

            Good luck!

            Bob

            2013: 2647.2 miles

            2014: Boston

            northernman


            Fight The Future

              Hi northernman! Wow, I've got a bunch of comments and questions for you. First, feel free to "log stalk" to see the types of runs and distances I'm currently doing; I might be a good reference point for you. Second, how far "north" are you? I see that you ran Twin Cities last October, so perhaps you are in Minnesota? I live just west of the Twin Cities, so maybe the same neck of the woods? Third, were you the guy in the red "Flash" costume running the Twin Cities Marathon (red lycra from head to foot, and NO SHOES!)? I ran TCM last fall too, and I think our finish times are about 20 seconds apart(!), so we may have crossed paths during the race. Fourth, how old are you, "old timer"? I will turn 48 in a few weeks, but I do not feel like I am rapidly decaying. Actually, I feel that getting back into running (after a period of years of not running) has helped me reverse the age-based decay process. Fifth, CONGRATS on qualifying for and finishing Boston this year!!!

              Ok, I am currently about 15 or 16 weeks into a 24-week Marathon training plan with Running Wizard. I will run Grandma's Marathon in Duluth on June 22. Last year, I did an 18-week Hal Higdon (Intermediate?) plan to train for Twin Cities. So far, I have really enjoyed the progression of phases in the RW plan, each phase building on the previous phase. It seems to make a lot of sense to me. The Higdon plan worked reasonably well for me last year, but I felt very tired and sore at various points in that program. In the RW plan, I have put in MUCH more mileage, yet I feel quite a bit stronger overall, and less prone to getting injured.

              I guess I'll have some definitive data for you on June 22nd. If I improve on my TCM time, I'll be pretty happy. I'll be happy to answer specific questions you might have based strictly on my own experience so far.

              Good luck!

              Bob

               

              I'm not quite as far north as you, just down in Rochester, but I do love the Twin cities marathon. Actually signed up to run it again this year - i think that will be my fourth time there. It really is the most beautiful urban marathon, like they say (and in fact, I liked it more than Boston, but don't tell the Bostonians.) I've also done Lake Wobegon several times, and I love that one too. That's amazing that we had similar finish times last year, but I wasn't wearing a flash costume, and I always wear regular running shoes. As for old, I'm 55, so I think I'm quite a bit ahead of you for age. Not sure if I should complain about getting old and feeble, but I was a bit bummed out about not PR'ing at Boston. However, I have heard that lots of people don't PR there, because of the hills, so I will stop feeling sorry for myself, and see what happens at TCM this year. I did go ahead and signed up for the running-wizard, and so far I like the looks of the plan. It has just a bit less hill work than I have become accustomed to, but I see that the fartleks allow hills, so I'll be adding some in there.

              Still plan to take it easy between now and my official start of training on May 6 to recover from Boston. I'll just do easy runs until then, and need to focus to stay slow so I don't injure something.

              Best of luck with your training and your race at Grandma's. I have heard great things about that one, and lots of friends who go there, but I've never made it to that one yet. Keep us posted on your progress.

                 

                ...As for old, I'm 55, so I think I'm quite a bit ahead of you for age. ...I did go ahead and signed up for the running-wizard, and so far I like the looks of the plan. It has just a bit less hill work than I have become accustomed to, but I see that the fartleks allow hills, so I'll be adding some in there....

                 

                Welcome. I'm a bit further north (southcentral Alaska) and older (coming up on 66F) than both of you.Wink  But haven't done that many races. I'm just starting the 3rd week of a 23-wk pgm. Since Lydiard's original suggestions / plans included rolling hills even in base, I've always considered hills to be fair game. Most of my races are hilly (generally 3000ft or more vertical in HM or longer) and being older, over the years, I've found I need to do a reasonable level of aerobic hills (rolling as well as extended, including hiking mtns) early on for basic strength and mental health. That is, run our normal trails without seeking out flat stuff - except for recovery days. If I'm understanding the Hill part of RW, it sounds more drill-like than the normal hills done in base (or at least what I do). At least I'm assuming what I've been doing is consistent with RW when goal race is a loop with over 3000ft of uphill. (note: log is complete for last couple months, but not detailed for prior years) Because the program is based on duration and intensity, it's easy to adapt to hills. Enjoy.

                "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                northernman


                Fight The Future

                  Alaska! Very good. I hear your mosquitoes are even bigger than the ones we have in Minnesota. Helps provide motivation when going uphill. Glad to hear about people running in their second trimester of life. Actually, I was just beat out by a 71 year old in a marathon I ran a year and a half ago, so was particularly inspired. Let us know how your training goes!

                    Just got back from London a few days ago and trying to catch up.  My girl, Yoko Shibui, didn't do as well; she was "only" 17th in 2:37 and, as it has been announced last night, missed the selection for Moscow World Championships (she would have had to run sub-2:24).  A bitter-sweet experience.

                     

                    At any rate, back to the topic; the PRINCIPLES of training (whether it's Lydiard or Daniels or Pfitz or whatever) SHOULD be able to be applied and implemented to a 4-minute-miler as well as a 4-hour marathon runner; a 16-year-old as well as a 60-year-old.  This is because the physiology of human being is all the same; and what we need to "race well" is all the same too.  The ratio may be different a bit; intensity and volume would have to be modified...  But, again, PRINCIPLES and FUNDAMENTALS are all the same for everybody.  We all need a good aerobic base; we all need to strengthen our legs and we all need to sharpen ourselves.  To do so, we ALL need to do some level of long runs; we all need to do some level of speed training; and we all (actually) need to work on our raw speed--because this also helps economy of action and in fact lessen our chance of getting injured.  So, in short, EVERYTHING is important.  Unfortunately, someone saying "we need speed so let's do some intervals..." ain't enough.  You'll need to figure out how much, how fast, and when.  Basically, what we tried to accomplish with Running Wizard is to create a program to figure all that for you.  Regardless of the age, but more so with the background of training, you may need to spend a bit more time to do Aerobic Base Building; you may not need to spend as much time doing all the slog of long runs but perhaps do more Leg Strengthening and/or Speed Development.  Again, RW would all do that automatically, based on a simple questionnaire to assess your background of training.  You may be a 17-year-old but you may have been running around through a farm land, or playing soccer since 10...in which case you may not need as much Aerobic Development Phase because, chances are, you probably have a good base to begin with.  You may be the same 17-year-old but never been active and never played any sort of sport--particularly endurance type of sport like soccer or basketball or tennis even--, then you'll need to spend a little more time on developing aerobic base.  Same with older person; you may be a 55-year-old but been running marathons for several years; then you may probably want to spend extra time working on hills or intervals; or you may be a 55-year-old who's starting out in which case you'll still need to spend a bulk of your training developing the foundation.  Age does matter; we get stiff as we get older.  But it's more to do with the background of your training.  The biggest mistake far too many young aspiring athletes make; they look at some young Kenyans at the age of 20, doing all sorts of incredible workouts and think THAT's what it takes to be a great runner.  They overlook the fact that they most likely have been running around the field, barefoot, miles and miles each day, building a huge aerobic base.  If YOU hadn't done that, it's not those impressive workouts that you need to start; but building the aerobic base that you'll need to work on first.

                     

                    Running Wizard is not solely based on mileage or target pace.  RW actually incorporate your background and training history as well.  You may be a 20-minute 5k runner; and your buddy may also be a 20-minute 5k runner; but depending on the background, your training plans may be very different.  This is the beauty of it.  Hope this answers some of your questions.

                     

                    Hi Folks,

                    just stepping in to test the waters. Just finished running Boston this week, and looking for a new training plan to try out for my next marathon in early October. I've been running for about 6 years or so, and have logged about 14,500 miles in that time, so I already have a pretty solid base. No injuries to speak of. In the past, I have used Pfitzinger's plans and also some others. I do like to run lots of easy miles, with occasional hills (which I also like) and I'm OK with intervals (although I don't really like them all that much). I'd like to break through 3:20, which is only 2 minutes faster than my PR last year, but I can tell I'm rapidly decaying as I age, so will be hard. I'm wondering if the Running Wizard plan would be worth trying, or if it is designed primarily for relatively new runners. Lots of the talk seems to focus on building base and preventing injuries, neither of which is my primary problem right now. Thanks for any insights!