Trailer Trash

12

Question re: liquid fuels (Read 55 times)

LB2


    I like two things:

    1. Water (preferably cold water)

    2. HEED

     

    Other than that, I'll take Endurolytes along with the water and HEED. It usually works out well, but sometimes, I fall to pieces despite my best efforts.

    LB2

      Is tailwind sold in stores? Or has to be ordered from their website?

       

      I'm pretty sure it's exclusively online. I actually got a sample in a Trail Box. 

      My Blog:  trailsandcocktails.com

      I Run for Oiselle

       

      3/2/14:  NERRC Winter 10k 

      3/30/14: Love Run 13.1

      4/5/14: Tyler Trail 10k

      4/13/14: Healthy Trails 5k

      5/4/14: Broad Street Run 10M

      5/9/14: Ragnar Relay Cape Cod

      5/18/14: Dirty German 25k

      valerienv


      Thread killer ..

        I like the orange . I have samples for the other flavors but haven't tried them . My husband likes the berry .

         

        I really like just pouring it into the bladder and I'm done . If I want something else I take the great advice given by John - trust the Race Director. At the TRT last weekend they everything you could think of plain water , ginger ale , coke ,Jamisons , beer if at anytime the Tailwind wasn't enough or you want something else it was there . The idea behind it is , you don't need to worry about pills and gels , you just drink and that's everything .

         

        You do buy it online,  they sell it in some bike shops in S. Colorado. You can also check them out on FB .

        FTYC


        Faster Than Your Couch!

          If you look at the nutritional information on the label, Tailwind contains only sugars for nutrition/energy/calories.

           

          What about the need for protein on longer runs? I don't doubt that the sugar gives you the energy you need, but the body needs protein, too, to maintain its biological functions, and to "repair" the muscles. If a person who does not exercise excessively needs about 0.8 grams of protein per kg body weight (assume: normal weight range) per day, why would Tailwind provide "everything you need all day" when you exercise (at a level that would be considered excessive by most nutritionists, thus requiring even more protein, like 1.1 grams per kg body weight or more)?

           

          If you run, say, a 24 hr race, or a 100-miler, and you don't eat any solid food (or use some kind of protein shake or such), I'd assume the lack of protein will compromise your performance?

          I have noticed that eating/drinking 20 or 25 grams of protein in ultras at around halfway point, or every 20 miles or so, gives me a nice boost, and I feel much better.

           

          Anyone have more information on this?

          Run for fun.

          jmctav23


          2/3rds training

            If you look at the nutritional information on the label, Tailwind contains only sugars for nutrition/energy/calories.

             

            What about the need for protein on longer runs? I don't doubt that the sugar gives you the energy you need, but the body needs protein, too, to maintain its biological functions, and to "repair" the muscles. If a person who does not exercise excessively needs about 0.8 grams of protein per kg body weight (assume: normal weight range) per day, why would Tailwind provide "everything you need all day" when you exercise (at a level that would be considered excessive by most nutritionists, thus requiring even more protein, like 1.1 grams per kg body weight or more)?

             

            If you run, say, a 24 hr race, or a 100-miler, and you don't eat any solid food (or use some kind of protein shake or such), I'd assume the lack of protein will compromise your performance?

            I have noticed that eating/drinking 20 or 25 grams of protein in ultras at around halfway point, or every 20 miles or so, gives me a nice boost, and I feel much better.

             

            Anyone have more information on this?

             

            Joe Friel (arguably one of the leading sports-nutrition-training-coaches putting out free analysis but mostly geared towards cycling/ironman) wrote a nice piece about it on his blog a few years ago:

            http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/09/should-you-use-carbohydrate-protein-sports-drinks.html

             

            My take-away was that it's easiest for the body to use carbs and some amount of branch chain amino acids while at a moderate (endurance) level of output, but protein just takes too much effort and time for the body to break down to have any real benefit DURING exercise.  If road bikers have a hard time processing protein while just cruising along in a peleton, I can't see any way runners would be able to make use of it.  Even branch chain amino acids do more in the way of damage control in the muscles than provide any real performance boost.  my 2 cents.

            mtwarden


            running under the BigSky

              another Perpetuem user (actually prefer the unflavored version)- it's the sole reason why I went to the AK pack, so I could carry two bottles- one w/ calories, one w/ water- I tried a double lumbar pack- it was OK, but not great, tried two handhelds- didn't care for that much, tried one handheld (w/ Perpetuem) and a vest pack w/ small hydration bladder- this setup was actually pretty good, but the AK is even better as if given the chance, I prefer to run hands free

               

              I still get calories from blocks and bars, but I like sipping on the Perpetuem as I go- I usually get about two hours out of a 20 oz Perpetuem bottle

                                                                         2014 

              HURL Fat Ass 50k  1/11- DNS sick :(

              Zion Traverse 47 miles 4/5 DNS :( stress fracture in heel

              Don't Fence Me In 30k 5/10

              Jamezilla


              Follower of Forrest

                Good point Couch

                 

                My understanding is you should have protein if you are going longer than 3 hours (or your body will "eat" protein from muscles, maybe even your heart).

                I suppose the protein content is the reason why pereptuem spoils?

                Looks like the best options would be:

                 

                A) Use tailwind, supplement with protein

                B) Use perpetuem, supplement with electrolytes

                 

                Am I missing anything?

                4/5 - Lost Brook Trail 10mi  1:15:42

                4/27 - Ironmaster's Challenge 50k

                6/21 - Manitou's Revenge 56mi


                 

                  Couch, I've given a lot of thought to that as well.   I tried Perpetuem and my stomach did not do well with it. I also hated the taste. I might still give it another shot this summer (perhaps the unflavored), because I only tried it a few times during the spring. Hammer Gels are some of the only gels I can actually stomach, but I still hate the stickyness after a couple hours. Thus, I think that if I can replace the gels and electrolytes with a liquid substitute, and then supplement with solids at aid stations (as Jamezilla stated) then I might have a good long-term solution.

                   

                  Regarding double bottle vests:  I have been thinking about ordering one or a few months and have been afraid to pull the trigger for various reasons, but mainly cost. I have a nathan vest now that works perfectly fine.  When you bottle-vest wearers go out with 2 bottles of whatever during TRAINING runs, do you bring the powder with you and refill water & mix on the run? Or do you park your car in a strategic place and just switch out bottles? I guess it all depends on the trail you run on. Obviously this will not be a major concern during a race.

                  My Blog:  trailsandcocktails.com

                  I Run for Oiselle

                   

                  3/2/14:  NERRC Winter 10k 

                  3/30/14: Love Run 13.1

                  4/5/14: Tyler Trail 10k

                  4/13/14: Healthy Trails 5k

                  5/4/14: Broad Street Run 10M

                  5/9/14: Ragnar Relay Cape Cod

                  5/18/14: Dirty German 25k

                  valerienv


                  Thread killer ..

                     

                    Joe Friel (arguably one of the leading sports-nutrition-training-coaches putting out free analysis but mostly geared towards cycling/ironman) wrote a nice piece about it on his blog a few years ago:

                    http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/09/should-you-use-carbohydrate-protein-sports-drinks.html

                     

                    My take-away was that it's easiest for the body to use carbs and some amount of branch chain amino acids while at a moderate (endurance) level of output, but protein just takes too much effort and time for the body to break down to have any real benefit DURING exercise.  If road bikers have a hard time processing protein while just cruising along in a peleton, I can't see any way runners would be able to make use of it.  Even branch chain amino acids do more in the way of damage control in the muscles than provide any real performance boost.  my 2 cents.

                     

                    I have read this in other places as well . I also figure if I want some protein it's available at the aid stations .

                     

                    Long and short of it is you have figure out what's best for you . I started out with Hammer products , which meant carrying little baggies to mix , having to carry bottles , having to carry pills and gels . Now I fill up my bladder and I'm done no need to think about it , that works best for me .

                    AT-runner


                      I save the protein for after the run when I'm recovering.  When I cut back on protein during long runs and races, my stomach issues went away.

                      mtwarden


                      running under the BigSky

                        re: two bottles- if the run is two to three-ish hours, the two bottles suffice; if it's going to be longer than yes I carry small ziplocks (they look like dope bags w/ white powder Smile) w/ two scoops of Perpetuem each (how many dependent on the run), if I have streams I fill both bottles (one w/ straight water) and sterilize w/ a steripen and then shake up the bottle w/ calories, if no streams then I have to carry a bladder and then fill bottles out of it, obviously w/ races that shouldn't be a big concern (just bring the number of baggies you'll need or stash them strategically w/ drop bags)

                                                                                   2014 

                        HURL Fat Ass 50k  1/11- DNS sick :(

                        Zion Traverse 47 miles 4/5 DNS :( stress fracture in heel

                        Don't Fence Me In 30k 5/10

                        FTYC


                        Faster Than Your Couch!

                          I have also found that the Perpetuem is a bit on the "heavy" side for me, I do better with Hammer's Sustained Energy, which has less fat and protein. But I definitely benefit from some easily digestible protein every 15-20 miles on long (30+ miles) runs. I found that "Proasis" protein drinks ( http://www.swansonvitamins.com/protica-proasis-protein-shot-clear-25-grams-6-2-9-fl-oz-liquid  ) work very well for me, it's a small, concentrated amount, I can drink it even when I'm nauseous, and it does not bother my body having to digest it. I buy it from my local grocery store (Wegmans), they have it on sale every now and then, $3 per shot.

                           

                          You might try diluting the Perpetuem fairly much, e.g. one scoop in 20-24 oz. of water. I do that on shorter runs in the morning, when I haven't had breakfast, but I know my run will be hard, and I do well with that. Haven't tried it on very long runs yet, though. When I'm on very long, unsupported runs, I take a multi-hour bottle of Perpetuem with me, e.g. 4 scoops in 10 oz of water (which makes it a thick consistency), and this is harder for me to digest (and I need the extra water/more Heed for it anyway).

                          But a different product might work better for you, too. Trying things out is the only way to find out.

                           

                          I acknowledge that for speedier athletes, digesting the protein might take away from their performance, but for me, the difference is negligible, and in the end, it helps me get through the run/race.

                           

                          Anyone ever given it a thought what that constant (and daily?) sugar-water in your mouth for hours on end might be doing to your teeth? Surprised

                          http://www.mouthhealthy.org/az-topics/b/baby-bottle-tooth-decay.aspx

                           

                          Couch, I've given a lot of thought to that as well.   I tried Perpetuem and my stomach did not do well with it. I also hated the taste. I might still give it another shot this summer (perhaps the unflavored), because I only tried it a few times during the spring. Hammer Gels are some of the only gels I can actually stomach, but I still hate the stickyness after a couple hours. Thus, I think that if I can replace the gels and electrolytes with a liquid substitute, and then supplement with solids at aid stations (as Jamezilla stated) then I might have a good long-term solution.

                           

                          Regarding double bottle vests:  I have been thinking about ordering one or a few months and have been afraid to pull the trigger for various reasons, but mainly cost. I have a nathan vest now that works perfectly fine.  When you bottle-vest wearers go out with 2 bottles of whatever during TRAINING runs, do you bring the powder with you and refill water & mix on the run? Or do you park your car in a strategic place and just switch out bottles? I guess it all depends on the trail you run on. Obviously this will not be a major concern during a race.

                          Run for fun.

                            Couch, again you bring up some excellent points! I never thought about the teeth.......Shocked

                             

                            But you are right, you can only find out what works for you if you try it out. The guy who first got me interested in ultras swears by Sustained Energy. He also ran under 7 hours at the JFK 50 last year and got 31st overall!  I haven't tried it yet because I heard so many good things about Perpetuem and just figured that was the better option. You know what they say about making assumptions... Wink

                             

                            Either way, at least I have a better idea of how to carry these things on the run. I will experiment with different stuff this summer and hopefully find something that works. Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions!

                            My Blog:  trailsandcocktails.com

                            I Run for Oiselle

                             

                            3/2/14:  NERRC Winter 10k 

                            3/30/14: Love Run 13.1

                            4/5/14: Tyler Trail 10k

                            4/13/14: Healthy Trails 5k

                            5/4/14: Broad Street Run 10M

                            5/9/14: Ragnar Relay Cape Cod

                            5/18/14: Dirty German 25k

                            12