Trailer Trash

1

Heart issues and endurance athletes (Read 38 times)

Sandy-2


    This article is mainly about cycling, but it is a little scary. I will say that I am a 'low mileage' ultra runner if that makes any sense.  Plus these days I don't get the heart rate up very high during training runs.

     

    But the scariest part of all is my running buddy just had a pacemaker put in, mainly do to AF.  He's not running for a while while he is recovering from the operation, for obvious reasons.

     

    http://velonews.competitor.com/cycling-extremes

    2/17/24 - Forgotten Florida 100 Mile, Christmas, FL

    AT-runner


    Tim

      Can't run (or cycle) away from genetics.

       

      A study out a few months back looked at long history of endurance athletes and heart issues, including a-fib, and compared results to no exercise group and mild exercise group. They concluded mild exercise lowers your heart risks and heavy exercise brings risks back to levels just slightly better than no exercise at all.

      “Paralysis-to-50k” training plan is underway! 

      XtremeTaper


        I think I am like you Sandy seeing that maybe to some I run a lot of miles for the group around here but in reality I'm not a high mileage person nor do I put much emphasis on speed these days in a V02 max sense. So I feel I'm pretty safe, and not too concerned but seeing I'm halfway through my 50's stuff like this gives me pause.

         

        I once was in the hospital for a heart situation diagnosed as acute viral pericarditis. I never thought of myself as invincible being an ultra runner but it still was surreal sitting there in the ER as they treated as potential patient for cardiac arrest.

         

        Well, long term there will be hiking and golf in my future.

        In dog beers, I've only had one.

        LB2


          Hmmm. Well, I rarely go balls out. I just "sneak down the trail". Is that okay, Sandy? Interesting article.

          LB2

          Daydreamer1


            Interesting reading. I thought about dissecting the article and bringing forth some interesting points in rebuttal, but I don't have the time to go that in depth right now.

             

            What I will point out is that after a 20 year career as a paramedic, and during that time seeing a large amount of A-Fib patients and sudden death from cardiac arrest, I can not remember ever treating a older endurance athlete for any dysrhythmia or cardiac arrest.  I have treated one high school athlete for Supra Ventricular Tachycardia (SVT).  Almost all of my cardiac arrest or dysrhythmia  patients are older (>50 ),  out of shape, sedentary and typically overweight. Among the middle age range (25-50) they are almost always obese or have other bad lifestyle issues such as drugs, or alcohol abuse. I have run into some who have needed a pacemaker inserted before they are 25 leading me to think that they have a congenital disorder.    It seems to me if a older endurance athlete has a average or above average risk of AF then I should have seen at least a few along the way.

             

            In the case of SVT I have known several people who are moderately active who have to deal with it. They developed it early in life and stress is more of a trigger for it than exercise.

             

            I don't really have a problem with doctors pointing out that we as serial exercisers have risks for cardiac disease. We do, and need to be aware that the fluttering in our chest, the dizziness etc.  may need to be checked out.

             

            I can tell you from personal experience that sedentary people read articles like this and use it as an excuse to not become active.

            FTYC


            Faster Than Your Couch!

              Interesting article.

               

              Not trying to wiggle myself out of it, or denying the risk, but I also consider myself a low-mileage ultra runner. I do 200+ months only once or twice before a 100-miler, which I do about once a year. I don't do many other ultras, or very long runs.

              I don't force myself to go all out, especially when I don't feel I can do it comfortably (sometimes it's fun to run as fast as you can for a short distance, or try to run "fast" "as long as you can"), and not even in a 100-miler.

               

              And I don't "train" anyway, I just run by feel and enjoy it, with some grinding every now and then. I'm not addicted to running or exercise, I can live well with less running than I do now, I don't have a problem with 15-mile weeks and haven't for many years.

               

              I have also heard of the study that AT mentioned. And I think 1) you should be connected to your body, feel out what's right for you and where the limit is, and 2) probably there's no way to know for sure what is too much for you and how far you can go.

              If you "run for fun", it might still be too much. But at least you enjoyed the ride/run.

               

              Is there a point in trying to live as long as possible, even if this means reducing the quality of life? Does the quality of life in late(r) years justify the fun or sacrifice of the early(er) years?

              Run for fun.

              Watoni


                Racing/hard training can be unhealthy, and bike racing involves lots of anaerobic efforts in addition to long hours in the saddle .... running does as well. I do not race or run/bike huge mileage, but I do long rides and runs on accassion

                 

                I will only say that I run/ride for fun, push myself on some occasions and try to be sensible in my approach. Lately I have been not doing as many intervals and just trying to get some baseline fitness back. If and when I do I am sure I will start pushing it a bit more ....

                 

                During one of my double centuries we assisted a ride who had a heart attack on the backside of Mt. Hamilton and died on the scene. He had a history of heart trouble in his family, and was exceedingly fit. As someone said, cannot ride/run away from genetics.

                mtwarden


                running under the BigSky

                  it's never overly surprising when someone who is grossly overweight, smokes and doesn't exercise dies of a heart related issue; I always am taken aback when that individual is extremely fit, ie the Micah True's of the world, does

                   

                  I knew a ER doctor in his early 50's who was extremely fit (big time biker) and am assuming that he paid attention to his overall health (maybe not a correct assumption) that died on one of his very routine bikes- it definitely gave me pause

                   

                  at the same time, there are worse ways to go than doing something you love?????

                   

                   

                  2023 goal 2023 miles  √

                  2022 goal- 2022 miles √

                  2021 goal- 2021 miles √

                   

                  FTYC


                  Faster Than Your Couch!

                    There are some more thoughts that crossed my mind.

                    Not trying to minimize a potential problem, or explaining it away.

                     

                    - Maybe athletes, and especially endurance athletes, have a higher relative risk for AF because they have a lower risk for congestive heart failure, diabetes (and causes of death related to it), and stroke. I mean that in the "general population", there are just more individuals dying from these causes, so  the group of endurance athletes is a select entity of individuals who rather die from other causes, and because congestive heart failure, diabetes and stroke are among the leading causes of death overall (cancer would be another one, but if someone has cancer, it's less likely he's an endurance athlete because he'd likely quit or interrupt his endurance training at least for a while), bang, all of a sudden, the endurance athletes are at higher risk for other causes of death, including AF.

                     

                    - The article talks about endurance athletes who seem to be "addicted to sports". Not all endurance athletes fit this description.

                    If someone is "addicted" to their endurance training, he's likely to keep exercising hard even when he's ill, with a fever, and it is very well known that this can lead to heart conditions (I don't know about AF, though). It is easier to bike (even hard) through a bout of the flu than it is to run through it, just because running is a bit more exhausting than biking, and while you couldn't run, you might be able to bike with a fever. So it is not a big surprise that especially bicyclists might be more prone to developing heart conditions, like scarring or fibrosis, over their years of active training.

                     

                    - Bicyclists might be at higher risk for overloading their hearts for decades because bicycling does not usually cause joint issues or pain like running does in some (many) people and which makes people quit. Therefore, bicyclists are more likely to maintain active endurance training for decades than runners. The longer the period of hard training, the more likely AF develops. Therefore bicyclists might have a higher risk for AF than runners.

                     

                    - Bicyclists, especially the die-hard, old-school endurance guys, who are in their 50's and 60's now, have a reputation to keep training hard. They might not easily accept (and modify=mellow down their training accordingly) that they are not in their 20's any more (where it is easier for the heart to heal completely without scars from overload). So they keep doing what they've always been doing, causing them to develop more scars, etc., which increases their risk for AF.

                    Run for fun.