Bugs
I'm training for my first goal sprint TRI in June, but I'm also running a half marathon in two weeks. Starting July my goal will be an October marathon. (A little all over the map with training goals.) Thus the long run is still important to me. Just curious what you guys do for long runs when training for sprints?
BTW, I did my first very small TRI last Sunday. I ran 12 miles later that day. (I maybe should have stopped at 10 miles as the last two got a little ugly.) I'm doing a sprint TRI tomorrow, where swim is in pool. I plan to push myself moderate, save my body for the June TRI. I'm still hoping to get long run in this weekend, is that crazy?
Is the June Triathlon in your back yard? My wife and I are doing that one.
I plan on doing my long runs through the year while biking, swimming and racing, but of course you will want to taper a little leading into your triathlons unless they are considered a "C" race for you.
The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff
2014 Goals:
Stay healthy
Enjoy life
Robert,
It is local. North Mankato Triathlon. How close are you to me?
I think right now the biking is harder on my legs than running long. Legs are used to running, legs are less efficient on the bike, another topic. I looked a few training plans but most seem to have a long bike ride not a run. Plus most of the plans don't specifiy the pace/effort on the run.
Most plans you find will focus on the bike since that is the longest event, not just from distance, but from the time it takes to complete it. Take a look at T-Bones log, he's a sub 10 hour Kona competitor and a very good triathlete. You'll find he still runs long and ruuns races, but I think he runs more by time then distance.
We are two hours north of Mankato and my wife has raced the North Mankato triathlon before. I also ran the Mankato HM last year.
rectumdamnnearkilledem
This is what makes me think I started with the wrong sport. I see so many runners say that they find biking really hard...and I definitely found the opposite to be true. Even at hard effort and relatively high weekly miles I find cycling takes so much less out of me. I had at least one 200 mile week last Summer that didn't kick my ass nearly as much as a 50 mile week of running does.
Bugs, if the cycling is hard on your legs you may be pushing too hard a gear. Aim for 80-90+rpms. If you are finding that you can't spin that fast, then you're almost certainly "mashing." I think one of the best tools I had when I first started biking was a cadence sensor. I use my 305 as a running and cycling computer. Works really well on the trainer indoors, too (just have to turn off the GPS). It tracks distance/speed/cadence by wheel and pedal revolutions.
I have a book with a ton of different multi-sport training plans. It lays everything out in terms of time and effort...they recommend using a HRM, but I just have never cared about that data. I go more by feel. The author is Gale Bernhardt, who has coached olympians and world champs. For my recent duathlon I used a plan from a HerSports magazine that was a lot more intense in terms of quality workouts (too many of them/week, IMO). By the end I felt really burned-out and it had a negative effect on my race day running. I ended up sick less than a week before the race.
So I'm going back to the Berhardt book for my next du in July.
Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to
remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.
~ Sarah Kay
re: the long run thing...I did that a bit last Spring. I was training for a 25k 2 weeks after my du. It is a little tricky to train for a sprint multi-sport event and a long-distance running event, but can be done. You just have to keep in mind that you won't be able to have optimum training for either event. This is one reason I have 0 interest in tris...training for 3 sports means that I won't be able to do any of them as well as I'd like. 2 sports is less of a challenge.
What I did was basically take the training plan I worked-off of and sort of hybridize it with running mileage similar to a moderate mileage HM plan. I think my running mileage peaked ~30mpw and my cycling was at about 80.
I peeked at your log. Girl, you REALLY need some bike-run bricks (believe me, your legs will feel MUCH stronger on that race day run leg if you've trained for that transition). And more mileage/time-in-the-saddle on the bike, in general. Running fitness helps with aerobic fitness on the bike, but doesn't do as much for the different leg muscles used. No wonder your tris have been rough. You can't expect to kick ass on minimal sport-specific training.
I still suspect you are mashing the pedals, too. If you don't have a bike computer, I highly recommend finding one with a cadence sensor. Your knees and quads will thank me. You'll likely go a LOT faster for longer distances if you are pedaling with greater efficiency. With your aerobic base cycling shouldn't be so difficult, assuming your bike fits you well.
After yesterday's TRI we biked to the bike shop and had them install a bike computer with candence. On tired legs, in the wind I was right at 80 rpms, doing 15mph against the wind. I think I'm in better aerobic shape than biking shape. So I got on the bike and decide to hammer it like a foolish girl that just ran.
Know our weather for biking this spring has been awful. I just bought the toe warmers, but had no idea how to bike in 30-40F + rain.
I ran 11 miles today, ugh got a little ugly. It would have probably been wiser to wait till Tuesday, oh well.
Burnt Toast,
Will you run Mankato again? I'm signed up for the full. Oh I'm not thrilled about the idea, so many hills that I will run alone but I need to say I've ran my hometown marathon once.
Zoomy,
Thanks for the book suggestion. I'm a newbie in this sport and in the mood to read all I can about it. How do you log TRIs? I assume bricks are logged as that type of run?
I'm a newbie in this sport and in the mood to read all I can about it. How do you log TRIs? I assume bricks are logged as that type of run?
I simply log them as separate workouts, but note that they are part of a brick workout in my log. Seems the easiest way to do it.
After yesterday's TRI we biked to the bike shop and had them install a bike computer with candence. On tired legs, in the wind I was right at 80 rpms, doing 15mph against the wind. I think I'm in better aerobic shape than biking shape. So I got on the bike and decide to hammer it like a foolish girl that just ran. Know our weather for biking this spring has been awful. I just bought the toe warmers, but had no idea how to bike in 30-40F + rain. I ran 11 miles today, ugh got a little ugly. It would have probably been wiser to wait till Tuesday, oh well. Burnt Toast, Will you run Mankato again? I'm signed up for the full. Oh I'm not thrilled about the idea, so many hills that I will run alone but I need to say I've ran my hometown marathon once. Zoomy, Thanks for the book suggestion. I'm a newbie in this sport and in the mood to read all I can about it. How do you log TRIs? I assume bricks are logged as that type of run?
Congrats on the tri, Bugs! I don't really have the whole thing figured out, but what I HAVE found is that biking helps the run, but running does not help the bike. Once I started doing a lot of miles on the bike, I was happily surprised at the pace I could run off the bike with pretty low running mileage.
Yes. I really embraced the bike by force last Summer, after badly spraining my left ankle (it's still not right, which is why I may never again be able to run trails). I was not able to run a step for 5.5 weeks and it was easily about 3 months before I really was able to really run solidly. All those miles on the bike really helped keep my loss of fitness at a minimum.
The nice thing about the bike is that if you do it right you can really get a good workout without burning out. 150+ miles/week on the bike is WAY easier than 50 running. The generally rule of thumb is that 1 mile of running = 3 miles on the bike. But this is more of a calorie burn thing, than anything. In terms of what it takes out of you, I'd say that 1 mile of running is closer to 4-6 miles on the bike. Today I rode 30...I would say my legs feel about the same as they do after a 5-6 mile run. But I got to burn more calories than I would have on a 5-6 mile run. Last Summer I was losing weight without trying...that has never happened to me in my entire adult life. I regained it all over the Winter, which sucked. I need to move somewhere where I can ride outdoors year-round!
I recover a lot faster from the bike workouts, too, assuming that I'm keeping the cadence relatively high. Honestly, had I started biking first I doubt I ever would have picked-up running, so I'm kinda glad it worked out the way it did. I like the variety of the two sports. They're a bit symbiotic. They work different muscles and have different advantages and disadvantages.
Biking is SO MUCH harder to fit in the schedule, especially a schedule with kids.
Decided I have to move the long run to mid-week. This article describes my Sunday long run to a tee.
I'm a fan of this approach. Use a transition run after the long ride to get used to running on tired legs.
YES, it is! Fortunately we only have 1 kid and this:
Dane (10) has already logged a 43 miler on the back of that. There will be lots of nice, long rides this Summer on occasions when DH and I would have otherwise had to get a sitter. We expect that Dane will be able to tolerate up to a metric century by Summer's end.
Puttin' on the foil
Biking is SO MUCH harder to fit in the schedule, especially a schedule with kids. Decided I have to move the long run to mid-week. This article describes my Sunday long run to a tee.
I adopted this approach like mid summer last year getting ready for a long course race. It worked great. Out the door at 5:30 am (ish) done with long run before 8 then off to work. Maybe a swim in the afternoon. Then I moved my important brick to Saturday followed by a "fun" medium distance ride on Sunday. That worked great for me. It let me work more and still get in the mileage for the bike and run. If I do an Ironman next year, I will go back to this approach. It's a little tough to pull off in the winter and early spring because of darkness, but come mid-April, good to go.
Don't be obsessed with your desires Danny. The Zen philosopher Basha once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.'
T-Bone,
You do 2 bike workouts then? When do you do the 2nd? Oh I suppose I could look at log.. but I'm lazy.
I really dug myself in a whole this week. My run on Tuesday was crap. I swam yesterday. Slept in today. Not sure when I will get to run. I really messed up by running long on Sunday.