Circle North

Workouts, schedule, etc. (Read 807 times)


My salty dogs

    hey salty....can you give me a basic layout of your training plan for your tri's? kinda clueless here. wow mexico?

    If I said go out slow and pace yourself would you listen?   

    I'm excited about Ironman Mexico and so is Jamie.  

    As for training, let me put something down later.  A major key is your running and because of it you are far better prepared than if you were a cyclist or swimmer. In the end you running fitness can carry you through any Tri.

    The times gained by putting more emphases on any other area just can't match what running can do.

    I'll post some specifics in a few days.

     

    What event are you shooting for?

    L Train


      She's not a runner anymore so you'll have to train her like she's a swimmer.  But really, she can barely swim and the only bike she rides in in her 64 degree living room.  So good luck coaching Coach and all that. 

       

        If I said go out slow and pace yourself would you listen?    

        What event are you shooting for?

         well i can't swim, i haven't been on a real bike since 1985 and i can't run either. so i have no choice but to go out slow. Wink

         

        thinking about the pirate tri to get my feet wet for the timberman half this aug. i want to like doin them and have romantic thoughts about lake placid sometime in my life....go ahead...have a laugh.

        In order to see the truth, sometimes you have to loose an eye.

        http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Utri/

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

          She's not a runner anymore so you'll have to train her like she's a swimmer.  But really, she can barely swim and the only bike she rides in in her 64 degree living room.  So good luck coaching Coach and all that. 

           

          stop pinnin your ears, be a good little horsie and hook on.

          In order to see the truth, sometimes you have to loose an eye.

          http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Utri/

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

            the perfect solution suggestion came at 2:23 am. chase the scale! 6 lbs. in 2 weeks.....very tough but i think i can do it..... ahhh my temporary "fix". daze comes through.

            In order to see the truth, sometimes you have to loose an eye.

            http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Utri/

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            L Train


              the perfect solution suggestion came at 2:23 am. chase the scale! 6 lbs. in 2 weeks.....

               

              This is an unfortunate thing to be told at 2:23AM.

               

              L Train


                So I had an interesting back and forth with mikeymike yesterday.  A lot of what I do in training has come from what he and others have provided as information, as it makes the most sense to me of all the opinions that are out there.  I basically spent last summer copying what he did for Baystate in 2008.  Anyway..

                 

                I figured after Boston that I would spend the summer doing shorter races, cutting mileage and working on some specific things.  All of this would provide sort of a break to my body and my family over the summer.  Good enough.  Then he threw this out there:

                 

                Yes, I find training for marathons much easier on the body than training for 5k's and such.

                 

                to which I responded:

                 

                Maybe that's true but I've learned enough to know that it's not true in the way that most people think.  You are telling me that you are still going to be laying down a bunch of consecutive 75+ mile weeks with more intensity this Spring? I would have thought it to be closer to high 50s to high 60s.

                 

                then this:

                 

                Maybe not 75's but 70's for sure, the difference coming almost entirely from less emphasis on the long run. Is that a whole lot less than what I was running in peak marathon training last August and September? When I look at the 6 weeks leading up to my best 5k last summer they were: 80, 70, 66, 73, 74, 70. The 6 weeks leading up to my 2nd best 5k, which was the week before Baystate, were 80, 72, 82, 83, 73, 66.

                 

                I don't think the formula to improve on that is to drop mileage to the 50's and 60's for an extended period of time. I've never run a good 5k off of anything less than 70 mpw. So I think the formula that will work for me is about 95% of the mileage I normally run in marathon training, with much more intense workouts.

                 

                You just ran a massive 5k PR off of the residual base from your own marathon training, which was all about running the highest mileage you've ever run in your life and no 5k specific workouts. How is it that you don't make the connection?

                 

                To which I responded something about thanks for ruining my summer.  Anyway, I really hadn't thought that training for a 5K would actually be more difficult than a marathon.  I assumed I would be able to cut volume at least a little while of course adding some more 5KL specific workouts to replace or at least augment some of the long tempos.  No point in writing this except to save for posterity's sake and for food for thought for the group.   

                 


                "Beep, Beep!"

                  Quick reply with maybe more later.

                   

                  Everything I have read says that each race has its ideal training regime with some stressing VO2 Max and other stressing Lactate Threshold and Pure Endurance. "The Runner's Edge" by Stephen McGregor, along with "Road Racing for Serious Runners" by Pete Pfitzinger really show dramatically different training plans for the 5K vs Marathon, with the primary differences being on intervals and tempos vs long runs.

                   

                  If your body can handle the mileage, great, but if the goal is faster 5K's I would think you would change more of those miles to Tempos and Intervals. I found that plans for 10K's seem to be tougher due to the intensity of the pacing in the plans versus the marathon plans. This is where I would agree that in some ways marathon training is easier.

                   

                  I would be happy to loan out any of the books to those interested.

                   

                  TD

                  Life's journey is not to arrive safely to the grave in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!

                  L Train


                    I don't think what you and mikey (and me) are saying are that different.  I know I would have to substitute easy miles for hard miles, probably lessening my tempo runs and shortening and increasing the speed of my interval training.  The part that surprised me was that the overall volume is to remain about the same, which of course makes the whole thing clearly harder than marathon training. I think the reason for that is while it is a shorter race, it is still a distance race (not a sprint) using aerobic system rather than anaerobic for the most paart, therefore requiring continued development of the aerobic system (vloume). 

                     


                    "Beep, Beep!"

                        In Pfitzinger's book - the most aggressive 5K plan does no more than 60 miles per week at peak averages 45-55. For the marathon at the same level of training his plans start at 60 per week build to up to 85 with two long runs per week each between 14-22 miles. Same with the other plans, most of the 5K plans have less total mileage per weekly for the reasons you stated... the workouts are much more intense.

                      Life's journey is not to arrive safely to the grave in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!

                        So let's assume then for a minute that Mikey's dead on 100% right. He may well be. I certainly have no reason to doubt him. If that's the case, and you're then looking at either no or very little decrease in volume, and increased workout intensity, how important is significantly lowering your 5k time? As important as the BQ was? Would it be as good a motivator? Would Mrs. Train kill you? And if you are doing that much work, why not run a fall marathon after all? Feel free to ignore any or all of these questions, they're just what popped into my head reading these last few posts.

                         

                        MTA: I think my real question is... Assuming he's right, what then do you DO with that information?

                        A list of my PRs in a misguided attempt to impress people that do not care.

                        L Train


                          So let's assume then for a minute that Mikey's dead on 100% right. He may well be. I certainly have no reason to doubt him. If that's the case, and you're then looking at either no or very little decrease in volume, and increased workout intensity, how important is significantly lowering your 5k time? As important as the BQ was? Would it be as good a motivator? Would Mrs. Train kill you? And if you are doing that much work, why not run a fall marathon after all? Feel free to ignore any or all of these questions, they're just what popped into my head reading these last few posts.

                           

                          MTA: I think my real question is... Assuming he's right, what then do you DO with that information?

                           

                          Yeah those are all good questions and al the stuff that went through my head.  My response after that was something along the lines of 5K training being better for my marathon time than marathon training.  As far as what to do with it, that's what sort of has me puzzled.  It's not really drop dead important for me to improve my 5K time, I just thought it made sense, and then reading that same thread it seems that most people believe that if you put in the effort to become a 5K runner you ultimately will come closer to your marathon potential.  But that level of intensity AND volume I think will increase my stress level, not decrease it, unless I just half-ass it and not really commit to it. 

                           

                          Of course, at our ages, we only have so much time to be improving, and I'm at least 2 years into my supposed 7 year window as it is.  I had planned to cut volume when I focused more on shorter races, but if that's not going to accomplish the goal then what am I really doing?  Honestly some of this is probably because (as you and I have discussed Greg, and you too, Robin) after the BQ goal I'm sort of lost (the 3 of us might be).  And I haven't really been that way about running in a while.  Boston currently has me motivated but I'm stumped about what to do with myself after that.     

                           

                          Also, as for mm being right or not, of course that's open to debate, the whole experiment of one thing.  But in general I gravitate more towards his way of thinking rather than a lot of other folks, and I also have a hard time with the plans like Pfitz and Jack Daniels, etc.  But maybe the answer for me lies there, maybe I try one of those lower volume plans this summer and see if I get anywhere (even if it means I don't reach my "potential". 

                           


                          Home Away From Home

                            I look at all this this way, i am coming a little lead in the thead but what really are our priorites. Is it more important to PR at a 5K and just run the marathon or do I want to PR the marathin and just run the 5K?  Reallistically speaking I don't think any of us can really figure we can excel at EVERY milege interval. Somewhere along the way are not training to the BEST of our ability for the race distance but yet we know that we aren't really doing all that bad either. If you can run good mileage for marathin training, then you can pretty much figure you can run a good 5K but just not maybe at your 100% best. I have at least lately decided I like the higher mileage races adn I want to do my best at them so I give my 5K the best I can but I don't drop mileage to run a better 5k, I might run the marathon mileage faster, but not shorter.  I don't like the drop down and then having to climb back up to the higher mpw. I prefer to try to do my best to keep the mpw up, at least when not stuck at sea. This are my thoughts.

                            MM#5768

                            "Anyone can do it in ideal conditions"- A quote from a true NE CN runner and friend.

                              oh slick...you have learned nothin.

                               

                              and NOTHIN is gonna give you the answers you want or don't want to hear like hands on experience. so why is it that you need to seek out answers from others when they really don't mean shit due to various variables. you are not an elite runner. you will never be an elite runner. you can only be the best runner that your life allows you to be....period. you have the experience....you know what you have to do....you know what you're allowed to do....make the necessary adjustments....and fuckin do it.

                              In order to see the truth, sometimes you have to loose an eye.

                              http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Utri/

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               


                              Home Away From Home

                                oh slick...you have learned nothin.

                                 

                                and NOTHIN is gonna give you the answers you want or don't want to hear like hands on experience. so why is it that you need to seek out answers from others when they really don't mean shit due to various variables. you are not an elite runner. you will never be an elite runner. you can only be the best runner that you life allows you to be....period. you have the experience....you know what you have to do....you know what you're allowed to do....make the necessary adjustments....and fuckin do it.

                                 Wow, clear, blunt and true. Very well said.

                                MM#5768

                                "Anyone can do it in ideal conditions"- A quote from a true NE CN runner and friend.