A Mile A Day

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Streaking and pacing adjustments (Read 241 times)


3Days4Cure

    I have a question for the experienced streakers. Yes, I used search and didn’t find anything relevant.

     

    With streaking, I’m trying to run more on feel as I’m trying to streak and build my mileage concurrently (goal of 50mpw within 4-5 months). My bet is my body knows more than a garmin or pace chart. I’ve noticed, as early in as my second week of streaking, my pacing on all my easy runs are slipping by about 30 seconds to a minute.

     

    It could be two things:

     

    1. I’ve been doing all my easy runs too fast and my final “horrible marathon pace” of 11:52 is likely the fastest I should run easy. Keep in mind, even with cramping, I held an 11:30ish pace until I started adding walk breaks at 22 and stopping for 5 mins at a time to stretch a cramped calf.
    2. My legs are a bit tried and adapting to the load and I may pick back up in a few months

    My log is deceptive, I had a 3 week taper going into marathon, and I rebuilt slowly after the marathon, with this week the first back in the 30s.

     

    The only reason I am concerned about pace is, due to job commitments, a treadmill is my only option 50% of the time, and it is nice to know where to set it.

     

    Sorry if I missed something on search and this is an annoying newbie question!

     

    Chris

     

    Chris

    2014 Goals 
    Raise $3,000 for the Komen 3-Day (and walk 60 miles in 3 days)
    Run at least one race

     

      Hi Chris,

       

      For all of last year I had a streak going and I had kept my easy pace right where it had always been (for me at the time that was 8:10-8:30ish).  I never really had any problems, though some days it was a struggle to hold that pace, but I could do it.  during that time I PRed in every distance I raced.

       

      However, I could never get myself above 50 mpw for more than a week at a time.  And when I did hit 50mpw I would feel it the next week - aches, pains, twinges, you name it and it happened to my legs.

       

      This year, I have found recently that I have dropped my easy pace back - not really on purpose, but mainly because my legs seem to be more tired lately - to 9:10-9:30ish for my easy runs.  I am now able to hit 8-10 miles most every day.  The days I dont it is usually a time constraint and not because my legs need the rest.

       

      At first I just thought I was slowing down, and that my running overall and racing might suffer.  But I was able to do a 3 mile tempo run yesterday at about a 6:38 pace (which is only about 14 seconds per mile slower than my PR 5K pace of 6:24).

       

      I say, embrace the slowness and get the miles in.  The speed will come.  Get up earlier and run longer.  Your legs will adapt to the longer distances and it will make you a better runner in the long run.

       

      Looking at your post, I dont think that you should be running your easy runs at your marathon pace - it should definitely be slower.  Punching your marathon pace into the Runnersworld Training Calculator it gives you a marathon time of about 5:00 if I am right.  It then says your EASY runs should be at 12:40 pace, that;s about a minute slower than your marathon pace.

       

      As for setting the treadmill, I would set it slow and build up a bit faster if you are comfortable.  If it gets uncomfortable, tone it down.  I usually set the treadmill (though I havent been on it in a while) at 7.2mph or 8:20mpm, which is probably too fast for me, but like you it is more routine - that is the pace I have always set it at.  But if my legs dont feel it, I have no problem pushing it down to 6.5 or even 6.0 for a run - whatever is a nice easy pace.

       

      Geez, I really rambled on there - did I even answer your question?

       

      Best of luck

       

      Jeff

       

      PS - in case you havent read this forum post by Jeff I think it is a great read and very helpful.  And I always try to remember this mantra - "If you want to run faster - run more.  If you want to run more - run slower."  Seems counter-intuititive I know, but it seems to work for people, myself included.

       

      http://www.runningahead.com/groups/2000/Forum/595e725d602c41ba9b4fba211ba528b9

       

        Chris, I'm so glad you brought this up.  I was just searching for something similar to this.  Not to thread jack, but I have some concerns about streaking & pacing too. 

         

        I'm working on increasing my mileage & have enjoyed being able to creep up there little by little, even if only a mile a day to make the increase.  But I've noticed on those days when I only have time for 1-3 miles (which means most days until next week), I'm running everything at a medium to tempo pace.  Few of my runs lately, unless I hit the trails, are at an easy pace.  I've always treated my shorter runs as tempo or medium pace runs, but I'm concerned that doing them all at that pace may not be good for me either.  I assure you, I'm not getting faster.  I'm sure this weekend when I do a long run, I'll be back in the low 10's, if all goes well.  There tends to be little difference between my training pace & my race pace, no matter the race distance.  I just train at what is comfortable & squeak out a little more during a race.  I know, not the perfect training method, some would say, but I keep up with my friends that train slow & race fast!   

         

        I'm guessing I should be listening to Jeff's advice & slowing down too, hey?!  I just feel better when I keep a faster pace, but I'm concerned that perhaps when my miles pick up, this might prove to be a bad idea.


        So do not get tired and stop trying. - Hebrews 12:3
          Before beginning streaking, I wouldn't run slower than 10 m/m, and often 9 m/m for my easy and recovery runs.  However, in order to run *every day*, some days are not only run at a "true easy" mindset, but a "recovery run after hard race" mentality.  This means some run segments or entire runs end up at 10'30"-11'30" per mile, even with the legs to run 6'46"/mile for a 5k.

           

          Those days that were former "days off" become "shorter and slower" run days.  I've found that my run pace varies from 6'45" for 1/2 mile intervals to near 12'00" miles for cool downs after runs.

          MTA:  I personally think I'm starting to learn the "run slower" concept--I've found the "slower" pace is very similar to my running pace with completely dead legs.

          "You can't untrain for Monkey" - bdub


          HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

            I'm far from any kind of expert, but I think my easy runs avg between MP+:30s/mi to MP+2m30s/mi.

             

            (That is, I call 7:30 my MP, and my easy runs are, I think, between 8:00 and 10:00)

             


            It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

              I'm far from any kind of expert, but I think my easy runs avg between MP+:30s/mi to MP+2m30s/mi.

               

              (That is, I call 7:30 my MP, and my easy runs are, I think, between 8:00 and 10:00)

               


               

              Sounds about right.  My problem is allowing myself to run in that +1m30s to +2m30s range occasionally.

              "You can't untrain for Monkey" - bdub


              A Saucy Wench

                easy for me is MP+1:15m to MP +1:45, recovery which I try to do at least once a week is ~ MP+2-2:30

                I find it difficult to run faster than MP+1 ever.  I am NOT one of those people who needs to be told to slow down


                I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                 

                "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                  I think training every day at your "race pace" is probably dangerous.

                   

                  I like having a slow, easy pace that I can start out with so that when I do a tempo run I can really feel the increase in pace.

                   

                  Also, I read an article a month or so ago about the elite runners and they run a lot of their runs really slow (well, slow for them at least).  I have heard that they will run some long, easy runs at 8:30s - and given that they are 5:00mpm pace for their marathons, that is pretty slow.

                   

                  Granted, running is their job so they have all day to go out and run and train and work out.  Those of us that have to squeeze running in before work, or soccer games, baseball games, birthday parties, etc... I can definitely get that it makes you feel better to ge a little extra mileage in during the time you have to run.  But overall I think you need to have a definite easy pace for most runs.


                  3Days4Cure

                    Thank you all (esp. jeff) for the advice and links.

                     

                    Frustratingsly slow or not, I tried going at a 13:00 pace today. Finished the run and, although it wasn't easy, after 10 minutes I felt like I could have another go. Hmm, never felt that way at the end of the run, and I went past my assigned mileage with none of the knee or leg twinges that have hit in prior runs.

                     

                    I'll trust I'll get faster, its just a tough pill to swallow that my "easy" pace is a 13 minute mile, and my interval training is in the low 8's. I am the slowest of the slow--and many wouldn't even count me as a runner at that pace.

                     

                    Hopefully if I religiously stay slow and add miles, speed comes. If not, speed won't matter when I start focusing on "stupid" in 2010. Just miles. LOTS of miles. And eating the 2000 mile pace bunny for dinner...(2010 will be a fun year).

                    Chris

                    2014 Goals 
                    Raise $3,000 for the Komen 3-Day (and walk 60 miles in 3 days)
                    Run at least one race

                     


                    In it for the long run..

                      I did low heart rate training for a few months in early 2008 as I was coming back from a broken knee (and surgery).  It was AMAZING how good I felt at the end of my runs.  I was going from 13 min. pace down to 12 or so- and had to walk the hills or my HR got too high.  I felt like an idiot, and got offers of rides from neighbors and other concerned people, but I felt like I could run forever.  It really DOES work to slow down- I just don't seem to be able to do it right now.  I am mentally very fatigued, although once I get out there I do fine and enjoy the runs.  It would help me to slow down, and I have the intent as I head out, and I am keeping my HR at a reasonable level, but I would feel better if I could slow it about 30 seconds a mile.

                      "It's not who wins the workout..."


                      A Saucy Wench

                        Hold on hold on, why on earth do you think Chris should base her paces on the MARATHON?  Just because she has completed a marathon, it doesnt mean that she was fully trained for the marathon distance.  If you look at her PR's, the marathon falls off the curve quite drastically.  That tells me she wasnt trained and didnt likely have the base to hold any kind of predictable curve. 

                         

                        You base your running paces off of a race that you were adequately trained for and if you are increasing mileage stick to the slow end of that or a tad slower if necessary.  Now if you are running 6-7 days a week dont ignore that in addition to EASY you need RECOVERY days.

                         

                         


                        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                         

                        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                        A Dance with Monkeys

                          When I feel like running fast, I run faster.

                           

                          When I feel like running slow, I run slower.

                           

                          Some runs I do both.

                           

                          Not sure why or what streaking has anything to do with this...

                           

                          Are you tired all the time from streaking or something?



                          3Days4Cure

                            You base your running paces off of a race that you were adequately trained for and if you are increasing mileage stick to the slow end of that or a tad slower if necessary.  Now if you are running 6-7 days a week dont ignore that in addition to EASY you need RECOVERY days.

                             Good point. I was definitely undertrained for the marathon-- maybe the days my legs feel awful I go for a recovery pace? This running on feel is still something I'm working out.

                             

                            Not sure why or what streaking has anything to do with this...

                             

                            Are you tired all the time from streaking or something?

                            I am trying to run more on effort, I think a lot of my injuries during my first marathon cycle came from me holding an arbitrary number when my legs simply didn't have it. I noticed as I started to streak that my "feel" paces were slipping into the mid 12's, thus me posing the question if this is a normal thing as I add days and consistency. Maybe the streaking is an irrelevant variable and the real factor is the decision to run on feel.

                            Chris

                            2014 Goals 
                            Raise $3,000 for the Komen 3-Day (and walk 60 miles in 3 days)
                            Run at least one race

                             


                            A Dance with Monkeys

                              Yep, that is my sense.
                                When I feel like running fast, I run faster.

                                 

                                When I feel like running slow, I run slower.

                                 

                                Some runs I do both.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                That's what I've been trying!  Since I've been streaking, my average pace is 11:18/mile.  Before the streak, it was 11:54/mile (in April; even slower before that).  I'm not consciously trying to run faster.   Today I did some speedwork and some slow running.  I feel as if I have more flexibility with streaking, because there are more opportunities each week to try different things.

                                 

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