Indiana - Awesome post.  Please feel free to ramble on...

Cbus - agree that onemile should lock in MP based on the 15k (didnt realize she had a time trial on the horizon).  Then if the pace doesn't fit, you must adjust it.

Cmb: I don't have much valuable input except my own experience, which isn't too dissimilar to yours.  HM PR is 1:48, 5K PR is 23:28, and I went from a 4:28 marathon in March last year to 3:51 in October, on Pfitz 18/55.  I say I don't have much valuable input because I don't have a HR monitor (*gasp*) and just pay attention to how my body feels.  You've been running long enough that you know your own limits.  And you've said it yourself that if you end up with a 4:19, fine, but I think--know--you can most likely go sub-4.

I still don't know anything about Hansons, so I have zero input there.  Sorry.

Braycon: Kind of looking for whatever, but since I don't have a written contract for my clerkship, so I don't have an official "you're finished" date (supposed to be late August), I still have some room to be picky.

Just got back from 5 on the DM (I like that!)... talked a girlfriend into joining me, so it wasn't too bad.  Easy 5-6 tomorrow and 14 Sunday.  Woohoo!

Really? Because we're not talking about modifying a plan here. We're talking about selecting a MP to use for MP pace runs in a plan.

 

And by "they" are you referring to me?

No, I just think that if you select a pace (MP) which is obviously faster, longer miles,  then you should follow it and not push yourself beyond. I'm just precautious, that's all.  Everyone's body is different, and recovers differently.  Just listen to yours, and if you can push push, if not back off.

Onemile - ahh the infamous marathon #1.  When I toed the line I had been running for a grand total of 10 months.  In that ten months I ran 2 5Ks, my first Half, and a time trial half.  I was using Higdon Novice II with some added miles here and there and running a short tempo every week,  The plan was light, but not for the amount of time I had invested as a runner.  I thought I was going to run a 3:50, but the temps were high, my pacers were banking, and I was by no means ready for 3:50.  I figured this out at mile marker 22.  I didnt lose too much time, and I still managed my true goal of sub 4 but I was ashamed of the style with which it was done.

It keeps getting easier as far as my body is concerned.  I can see, feel, and prove the gains since then.  Dont get me wrong about the getting easier.  I think we all have to train outside of our comfort zones and I do push myself.  I have 16 scheduled with 12 @ GMP this Sunday.  You can almost bet I am going to be 5 to 10 seconds faster than GMP.  Ask me again Sunday how I feel about MP.

Cbus - I dont think you sound like a nay-sayer, you just have a slightly differing opinion than some, and the same opinon as some others.  You da man.  And I am still so happy to see you getting all the miles in.

Got 3 done in 30 minutes today to make up for the 3 I lost Wednesday night.  It was a refreshing run.

Was the 13 at 1:55 an easy run or a tempo run?  Because if it was just a training, your 1:46 is breakable.  I run 13 miles in 2:24 and I can run a race at 2:05 and not even pushing it.  YMMV.

But I agree with Cbus, you need another race or recent number to confirm your MP.  I don't do Hanson so I don't know how the MP in that plan feels like.

Banshee - It's not a do or die race per say. I have another marathon tentatively planned for fall. But I would rather blow up than finish it feeling like I did in my last one.  Ideally of course, I would suffer a ton but not blow up

 

Those who mentioned Heart Rate Monitors... Ugh, yuck, no. I am really not wanting to use one.

 

indiana - I appreciate all your comments.  What was your training like for marathon #1 and to what do you attribute your ability to not hit your goal time?

 

cmb- that makes sense.   I also should have a PR even if I totally screw things up so I do want to run more aggressively than if it were my first.

 

Cbus - with half marathon training, I went into it with a goal of 1:55 (My PR was 1:59x) and by the end of the cycle I ran a 1:46x.  And last night my 13.1x mile training run was 1:55  I know I can't expect that kind of improvement to continue though.  I guess it's hard to think in terms of incremental improvement because I haven't run one for awhile but I do want to run one in line with my PRs.  If my half PR is 1:46x still in April, I definitely wouldn't try to run faster than 3:50.  But if I would run a 1:44 or something I would expect myself to do better than 3:50. It's not really about it being a respectable time or anything. It's more that I want a time that lines up with my abilities.  Which to me means somewhere in that double HM plus 15-20 minute range (I'm not sure I buy the McMillian plus 12 theory... which I guess would be double HM plus 23 minutes for me).  That seems more conservative than I'd like to be.  I think we have a very different view on this because of how our first marathons turned out.

Onemile, I already feel bad for naysaying you so much. So I think you should just ignore all my talk. But I'm getting the sense that you are saying two opposite things. On one hand, I hear you say that you know that you cannot run 26.2 @ 8:30. On the other hand, when it's suggested to lower your goal, you say that you'll improve to run 26.2 @ 8:30. Well, if you are sure that you'll improve by the end of the cycle, then just stick to it.

indiana - thanks for sharing. That is a very nice first marathon time for the amount of time you have been running, even though it may not have been the best executed race.

Damaris - yeaaaaah it was a tempo (MP) run - and I did my wu/cd too fast again. Whoops.

Cbus - Don't feel bad. I want opinions and I'm asking for them!  I guess I want to push it in training but I would never be that stupid in the race unless I found by the end of the training cycle I got much faster. Does that make sense?

zoekat - Thanks for the input. McMillian plus 5 is pretty good. I'd be thrilled with that.

7 easy paced miles done in feels like -11 and windy.  Brrrrrrr!