Sub-4 Marathon Group

Hanson & Pfitz Discussion (Read 381 times)


Smashy!!!

    Thanks everyone for the thoughts on tune ups. I had another question for you. This one is in regard to training paces.

     

    The Hansons book is pretty straight forward in my opinion with regard to paces.  For those of you using Pfitz, how are you determining your training paces?  Once you know your current performance, are you simply using the McMillian calculator, or running solely by the heart rate intensity goals spelled out by Pfitz, a combination of things, or something else..  Thanks !

     

    That's one my big criticisms of Pfitz. And if you follow the paces on the quality as prescribed n the plan, then they turn out to be pretty crazy workouts.

    PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)

    jedigunnie26.2


    BQ in 2013

      That's how i usually train as per the McMillian calculator except this cycle. Doing Daniels 5k-15k and using paces as per my VDOT which is 47 currently.

       

      Thanks everyone for the thoughts on tune ups. I had another question for you. This one is in regard to training paces.

       

      The Hansons book is pretty straight forward in my opinion with regard to paces.  For those of you using Pfitz, how are you determining your training paces?  Once you know your current performance, are you simply using the McMillian calculator, or running solely by the heart rate intensity goals spelled out by Pfitz, a combination of things, or something else..  Thanks !

      PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

       

      2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

       

      2013

      Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

      Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

      Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

       

      Up Next:

      Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

      RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

      Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

      onemile


        I think most who use Pfitz go with the McMillian calculator for paces.  But I do like how Hansons spells out exactly what pace to do each run.  Leaves no question. Smile

        jedigunnie26.2


        BQ in 2013

          I thought the paces Hanson shows is just a guide for 5k & 10k paces at least. I agree on the MP and easy paces though.

           

          I think most who use Pfitz go with the McMillian calculator for paces.  But I do like how Hansons spells out exactly what pace to do each run.  Leaves no question. Smile

          PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

           

          2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

           

          2013

          Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

          Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

          Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

           

          Up Next:

          Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

          RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

          Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

          DetroitTigerFan


            Another question for the group:   Speedwork

             

            Hansons has it weekly through the plan. Pfitz really has it starting later in the program as VO2 Max

             

            What are your thoughts - is one speedwork approach more effective than the other ?

             

            If i remember, I think Pfitz believes speedwork is better later in the program as they feel the impact is more effective closer to the race day

             

            I've been debating this and am wondering if there is a way to come up with a plan that uses combination of Hansons and Pfitz. I like the Hansons speedwork thoughts, but i like the 2 days off for Pfitz too

            PB's     10K 47:15 (9/13)     HM 1:45 (9/13)     M 3:57 (10/13)

            Running Blog   http://davesdigitaldestinations.blogspot.com/

            jedigunnie26.2


            BQ in 2013

              I like the sppedwork upfront and Hanson not only plan that does it this way. Daniels which I am in middle of right now and also Hudson does it this way too. Hanson believes in same philosophies as Daniels. In Hudspn's book he believes you rev up the engine first and then get specific with race pace.

               

              Another question for the group:   Speedwork

               

              Hansons has it weekly through the plan. Pfitz really has it starting later in the program as VO2 Max

               

              What are your thoughts - is one speedwork approach more effective than the other ?

               

              If i remember, I think Pfitz believes speedwork is better later in the program as they feel the impact is more effective closer to the race day

               

              I've been debating this and am wondering if there is a way to come up with a plan that uses combination of Hansons and Pfitz. I like the Hansons speedwork thoughts, but i like the 2 days off for Pfitz too

              PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

               

              2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

               

              2013

              Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

              Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

              Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

               

              Up Next:

              Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

              RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

              Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13


              Smashy!!!

                I thought Pfitz puts the speed in the end because it's a low priority for him. But maybe I'm wrong.

                PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                Rusk Runner

                  Cbus - The thought process that  Pfitz is using with the intervals towards the end of the program is that you gain a powerful training stimulus from training at these effort levels.  Echo Daniels, who recommends running more intense speedwork closer to raceday.  Glover, who I just started reading this week, echos the same sentiment.  Many coaches feel you get great fitness boosts by training for short periods at or above VO2 max and they rec that you get these boosts closer to race day.

                  Another plus that I have found (and my opinions are insignificant) is that when you do the intervals it loosens you up and reminds you that you are capable of kicking in the jets.  After all of the long runs and cumalative fatigue, my muscles, more significantly my legs, are tight and tired.  When I do the intervals, it really feels good.  My legs feel better.  I enjoy the wind and fast feeing.  My heart rate goes lower on remaining workouts as the weeks of intervals go by.

                  Pfitz also recs that you cut mileage during the taper, but not to start running slower everyday.  He encourages you to do some faster running to keep your legs loose.

                  PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

                  Just Run!!!

                  TriciaRuns


                    So next week I start having training runs in he pfitz 18/55 plan that call for 8 miles general aerobic w/ 10 x 100 m strides. Could someone please explain to me how you do these runs? I have a good 8 mile out and back route not sure when to do the strides or how you judge how long 100 Meters is. Sorry for the silly question. Thanks in advance

                    -Tricia

                     

                    PRs

                    26:32 - 5k

                    53:16 - 10k

                    1:58:47 - HM

                     


                    Smashy!!!

                      So next week I start having training runs in he pfitz 18/55 plan that call for 8 miles general aerobic w/ 10 x 100 m strides. Could someone please explain to me how you do these runs? I have a good 8 mile out and back route not sure when to do the strides or how you judge how long 100 Meters is. Sorry for the silly question. Thanks in advance

                       

                      I might be wrong, but I think strides are indeterminately paced sprints. Just think, you're running random hundred yard dashes to shake the legs out and get the heart jumping. At least that's how I think of them.

                      PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)

                      onemile


                        Tricia - I've done a plan with strides before.  I usually save them for the last few miles.  If you think about the straight part of a track, that's about 100 meters.  Or you can just do around .06 miles on your Garmin.  It should feel like a controlled sprint.

                         

                        I think the idea is mainly to get your legs turning over fast and the specifics aren't that important.

                        DetroitTigerFan


                          Tricia - on the workout - i usually do the sprints equally after being warmed up (so after mile 2 or 3) To be honest sometimes i would forget which rep i'm on (i.e - did i just complete stride 4 or 5 ?,etc - lol) As one mile pointed out - the GPS method worked for me - or just ballpark it - think of a standard 400 meter track and think of doing the straightaway portion for the 100m. Hope this helps

                          PB's     10K 47:15 (9/13)     HM 1:45 (9/13)     M 3:57 (10/13)

                          Running Blog   http://davesdigitaldestinations.blogspot.com/

                          TriciaRuns


                            Thanks guys. That makes sense. I thought that's what was implied but wasn't sure.  I like the idea of doing it towards the end because too early and id probably want to be done with my run Smile.  Thanks for the tips.

                            -Tricia

                             

                            PRs

                            26:32 - 5k

                            53:16 - 10k

                            1:58:47 - HM

                             

                              Hansons' strides are usually 10 seconds long.  I measured it once and came to the conclusion that was about 15 strides or so, so I just count my left foot strikes.

                               

                              Strides are generally about form.  One concentrates on one particular aspect of form during the stride, such as not tensing up the hands, watching your footfall to make sure you're landing under your center of gravity, keeping your back and neck relaxed, driving your knee forward with your foot high for the next stride, high cadence count,  etc, etc.

                               

                              They are supposed to be short enough that they don't tire you out, and you shouldn't start the next one until you are fully recovered from the preceding one.


                              Rusk Runner

                                Tricia - when you run your strides, dont start tensing or clinching up.  You should be running fast, but relaxed.  If you break your relaxed running form, you are running too fast.  Its really just about learning good running economy, opening up your stride a bit, and putting in a little speed that you dont really need any time to recover from.

                                I always did the strides after the mileage was done.  To be honest, I skipped the strides quite often last time out if I was feeling like I might injure myself.

                                PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

                                Just Run!!!