I do trust the program. That 's not the issue. I don't feel well--that's the issue. Skipping runs is not ideal. But neither is DNF a workout, which I almost did last Thurs, Sun, Tues. and yesterday. Can I really go through 6 more weeks of training almost DNFing every Quality day? Or will I actually DNF at some point?

I don't read it that way. I don't see the :05 as a metric. I just see the point made that one must be on-pace, regardless of the workout. And off pace means that: off pace.

And I do run my LR at prescribed pace. If I do my LR this Sunday at Easy pace, it is because I need recovery. Next week, is 7, 3x2mi @ GHMP - :10, 7 tempo, 6, 6, 12. I might not make it.

Run it extra slow and trust the program.  I spent the first half of the program questioning if I would be recovered enough to hit the next workout. But so far so good.

 

The 5 seconds in this scenario though is for an 800, so that would really be 10 seconds off per mile.  Which is a bigger margin.

 

And doesn't this apply to doing your LR at the prescribed pace then too?   

 

To me, a few seconds faster than goal pace is on pace.  Or a few seconds slower. But doing V02 max runs 10 seconds faster / or slower (like the example) is different.

By not feeling well, do you mean tired and sore, or is it more than that?

I had a rough stretch where I was dreading every run and just feeling worn down and exhausted.  But it's better now. And I think that's because I have gotten stronger and I would expect the same for you if you can hang in there a little longer.

I do trust the program. That 's not the issue. I don't feel well--that's the issue. Skipping runs is not ideal. But neither is DNF a workout, which I almost did last Thurs, Sun, Tues. and yesterday. Can I really go through 6 more weeks of training almost DNFing every Quality day? Or will I actually DNF at some point?

 

I don't read it that way. I don't see the :05 as a metric. I just see the point made that one must be on-pace, regardless of the workout. And off pace means that: off pace.

 

And I do run my LR at prescribed pace. If I do my LR this Sunday at Easy pace, it is because I need recovery. Next week, is 7, 3x2mi @ GHMP - :10, 7 tempo, 6, 6, 12. I might not make it.

 

Docket:  I have the drive and desire to train for it, but don't think I have the natural talent nor the time to do so!

Onemile:  I think that's a great question but the answer if probably different for different types of runners.  Obviously, running 70-80 miles WITH quality runs is more ideal, but it's just not possible for all of us.  So, for myself, who has some natural speed but sometimes struggles with endurance, miles over quality may be a better approach.  For someone who is on the slower side but has natural endurance, fewer miles with quality might be best.

Here's another interesting question - kind of along the lines of the Hansons/Pfitz, choosing a plan discussion.

 

Do you think that a person would get more benefit from doing fewer miles but more quality (say 50-60mpw) or doing less quality but more miles (say 70-80 mpw).  For me I think there's a limit to what I can handle - and I can't do both. Maybe some day but not right now.

I think it's different for different people. There's only so much increase in quantity that a person can adapt to. So if it's someone who is used to running 40 MPW, going to 80, even if it is all easy, might not benefit as much as only increasing into the 50-60s with quality days. If it's someone who is used to doing 70-90 MPW, then they might not benefit by going down in mileage--heck, they might not benefit by going up into 100-120 range, but rather by adding some quality. And then there is a ceiling for some people. If 60 is that ceiling, then it don't matter if it's all easy, 70-80 is an injury risk. So, I think it all depends.

I'm not sick. I just feel lousy. I guess it could be classified as fatigue. But I feel like fatigue doesn't quite capture it. Basically, I feel like a zombie. Sorry, if I sound grumpy today--like I said, part of this fatigue is manifesting as irritability; I really do appreciate you prodding me on (except the 5K stuff--that crosses the line).

Well if you are actually sick, it's different.  That's why I asked.  In this case, maybe a rest day is in order.

 

Morning all!

Just a quick contribution to the pace discussion- I find my pace varies according to terrain, winds etc. so while I sometimes run several consecutive kilometres on a flat road at a very constant pace, I also will see a biggish variance on rolling hills. I also have the habit of speeding up towards the end of a run- when I get within a couple of miles of home I want to get it over with!

I am NOT a good example, but I do think perceived effort is also important.

 

On the number of quality days- as an older individual I have definitely noticed both that I have less physical strength than I used to, and that it takes longer to recover from a hard effort. (RVD may be able to confirm, but I think this is common among people over 60).

I seem to find that I am losing approximately 1% per year in terms of running performance, and I tend to find a week with one long run and one speed effort, either tempo or intervals, is plenty for me. I also prefer to run a maximum of 5 times per week not 6 times.

 

Another vote for candid discussions and honest answers rather than cheerleading.

Wishing everyone a great running month!

Well, we're very different.  I prefer to run 7 days a week.  With the Hanson program I'm getting the three quality workouts per week and often want to go faster than I should on the other days. I was also doing 3 - 6 on the one SRD in this 40 - 60 mpw program.

I just purchased the Hanson 20 week 60 - 80 program to use for Chicago.  I don't seem to be getting slower this year.  In fact, I'm kinda hoping to PR at all distances this year (5k, 10k, HM & FM).  Of course, some of those PRs are pretty soft.

I guess only you can decide if you really NEED a rest day or just really WANT one. For me it was the latter.  And I pushed through the fatigue and it ended up getting better.  But you are running harder paces than I am and I don't know if it's the same as what I was experiencing with the full plan.

I'm not sick. I just feel lousy. I guess it could be classified as fatigue. But I feel like fatigue doesn't quite capture it. Basically, I feel like a zombie. Sorry, if I sound grumpy today--like I said, part of this fatigue is manifesting as irritability; I really do appreciate you prodding me on (except the 5K stuff--that crosses the line).

 

BTW, have you signed up for that 5k yet?