5-10 miles at HMP is a tough run.  I've been doing a lot of my Pfitz tempos at a little bit slower than HM pace to compensate for the sheer duration of the run - I'm pretty sure the Pfitz plan is written with faster runners in mind (the tables in the book max out at a 4 hour marathon, lol).  Though, I've also been doing them on the treadmill, where I consistently run slower than outside, and where it's easily 75 degrees so heat has been a factor for me.

 

FWIW, I ran my 5k pace intervals at ~7:49 this morning.  That's actually a little bit faster than my actual 5k PR pace, but it's slower than what my HM predicts I can run (my actual 5k PR predicts a HM that is 3.5 minutes slower than my PR).   Speed is my weakness - my legs just don't go fast efficiently, so I know that in order to finish workouts standing up, I have to give myself a little bit of cushion on the speed I am "supposed" to hit.

That's what makes me think something is missing in the Half-marathon plan. To be clear, the Half-marathon plan is not explained in the book. It's just on the web. The charts in the book do have half-marathon equivalents, which are much slower than what is explained in the web plan. I'm gonna have to look at all this again tonight...

 

5-10 miles at HMP is a tough run.  I've been doing a lot of my Pfitz tempos at a little bit slower than HM pace to compensate for the sheer duration of the run - I'm pretty sure the Pfitz plan is written with faster runners in mind (the tables in the book max out at a 4 hour marathon, lol).  Though, I've also been doing them on the treadmill, where I consistently run slower than outside, and where it's easily 75 degrees so heat has been a factor for me.

 

FWIW, I ran my 5k pace intervals at ~7:49 this morning.  That's actually a little bit faster than my actual 5k PR pace, but it's slower than what my HM predicts I can run (my actual 5k PR predicts a HM that is 3.5 minutes slower than my PR).   Speed is my weakness - my legs just don't go fast efficiently, so I know that in order to finish workouts standing up, I have to give myself a little bit of cushion on the speed I am "supposed" to hit.

cmb - Do you have a heart rate monitor?  I found that to be the best way to lock into my tempo paces (based on Pfitz's recommended tempo heart rate chart).  They ended up being about 10-15 seconds faster than HMP.  Also, my understanding is that Pfitz's tempo runs are to increase lactate threshold versus just improving endurance.  Given that goal, instead of going slower than our true "tempo" pace in order to cover the prescribed length of the run (say Pfitz schedules a 6 mile tempo section), I believe we're better off running for a prescribed period of time at our lactate threshold pace.  For the advanced runner that the book is targeted to, a 6 mile tempo run is probably in the 35-38 minute range, whereas a 4hr marathoner is looking at covering that distance at lactate threshold pace in something like 45-48 minutes.

 

The Elixir is a lightweight stability trainer, and the Musha is a stability racing flat. Elixir equivalents would be the DS Trainer and Ravenna. Musha equivalents would be DS Racer and Racer ST. I've not run in the Musha (only tried it on). But the Elixir is a great everyday trainer. I'm sure someone with neutral pronation wouldn't even notice the minimal support in the shoe. Someone who is used to stability trainers would get a faster feeling shoe. It's lightweight, very responsive, great upper fit, some stability, and smooth/quick toe to heel transition. I'm really liking the Elixir.

 

And oh yeah, Go Bruins!

Thanks for the breakdown, Cbus.  I have a pair of DS Trainer 16s and I hate them.  They feel way too structured to me and my leg hurts within a minute or two of putting them on.  I've noticed they also cause something funky to happen with my peroneal region - my muscles just pop out the side of my lower left leg...ouch!  I liked the Ravenna when I've tried them on.  I'm curious to try on the Elixirs.  The Mushas sound a lot like my Adidas Mana 5s (which I still love after many miles).

Mizuno Precision or Rider be good neutral trainer for you. Both lightweight, but not as much as the Musha which is a racing flat. I train in both and use Musha for my quality days.

 

Thanks for the breakdown, Cbus.  I have a pair of DS Trainer 16s and I hate them.  They feel way too structured to me and my leg hurts within a minute or two of putting them on.  I've noticed they also cause something funky to happen with my peroneal region - my muscles just pop out the side of my lower left leg...ouch!  I liked the Ravenna when I've tried them on.  I'm curious to try on the Elixirs.  The Mushas sound a lot like my Adidas Mana 5s (which I still love after many miles).

HMP is a tough pace for training run past 5m imo.

 

The Elixir is going to be a zippier shoe than the DS Trainer (but I think ASICS are clunky in general). But yeah, the Mana is a great comparison to the Musha.

Going to try to get out and try on some Musha's asap.  They've got them in my size on runnerswarehouse for $55!

haha, the word "mushas" makes me giggle.  It's the little things...

Pureproject devotees: has anyone tried the PureFlow 2 yet?  I ordered them from my LRS and they're in, DH works right by the store and was going to pick them up for me, but I haven't gotten to try them on.  I'm assuming if I love my PureFlows, I'll love the 2's... and I can always return them if I try them out and don't like them, I suppose.

akalei - I am a pure project devotee. I am stuck on pure flows and will not be changing anytime soon. I tried the pure flow 2's at LRS and I now covet them. I havent bought any yet as I still have 3 pairs of flows in rotation that need to be worn out. I did buy a pair of Pure Grit 2's, and they also are wonderful. The fit and feel of the uppers in the new line are waaay better than the original line and the tongue feels like it will stay put. I dont think you will have a problem with the 2's.

I have been doing my Pfitz tempos at HMP but they have been of only 4-5 miles for now.  Once you increase to 7 it's very tough.  It's OK to slow down a bit, as you'll still get a good workout that is faster than GMP.

 

I did a long tempo last night. It was 1 mile warm up (10:00) and then I went to 9:22 (6.4 MPH) for 40 minutes. After 40 minutes I wasn't dying to be done so I went to 9:13 (6.5 MPH) and stayed there to finish up the last 10 minutes of my planned 50 minutes at tempo pace. I did my cool down mile faster than my warm up mile, 6.2 MPH down to 6.1 MPH. In the end I averaged 9:29 per mile for 7.25 miles and I wasn't dying by any means. I would guess that means I need to run a tune up race in a few weeks.