Hi all,
I typically have a little swelling during summer long runs, but over the weekend I ran a 50k and had pretty severe swelling in my hands. I was out longer than usual and it was quite warm and humid, but I need help figuring out what to adjust first in that situation. I feel like I was getting enough electrolytes/salt because my sweat felt a little gritty. (You sweat out excess salt, right?) I also felt like I was taking in enough fluids, but maybe not. I drinking regularly, I wasn't thirsty, and I did stop for a bathroom break halfway through.
In the past I've always just taken in plain water with gel blocks or sport beans and whatever is at the aid station. This summer I've been drinking Tailwind (and snacking if I'm hungry) and I've been very happy with it. I just became alarmed Saturday and it could just be that I was out a long time. I guess I'm not sure what's normal, if any swelling at all is normal.
Thoughts or suggestions?
Uh oh... now what?
Got to: http://www.succeedscaps.com/articles/
Read the top two articles (second and third links), then study the table (first link).
rgot
You'll ruin your knees!
Got to: http://www.succeedscaps.com/articles/ Read the top two articles (second and third links), then study the table (first link).
^^^
This!
""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)
Eat to run, Run to eat
Sorry to hear about the swelling, but I didn't know (or forgot) you were at Wildcat too. You finished two places after I did, and I was bib 214. LOL.
Stone Mill 50m 11/16/13 12:42
Febapple Frozen 50k 2/22/14 9:20:55
DIrty German 50m 5/18/14 12:06:16
Ah, thank you! I had seen this table in the past and forgot about it.
I think the closest I can guess to what was going on was:
Over-hydratedLikelihood: moderateWeight is up a few pounds or moreWrists and hands are probably puffyStomach is queasyThirst is low, and salty foods taste normal.Mouth is moist; can spit.Causes: fluid intake in excess of needsWhat to do: Drink only to wet mouth until weight is near normal
Except I wasn't queasy at all. I had some pretzels and some fruit and my stomach was fine the whole time. I will read the articles and evaluate what I'm taking in.
Sorry we missed each other!
I hope you figure out the swelling.
What did you think of the race? It is tough one! I even did a few extra miles last year because we got turned around somewhere during the first loop.
Sara
MM #2929
These articles are written by people trying to sell you salt caps. There is still a lot of debate about whether you need any salt at all, even up to 100M, actually. Personally I would disagree with a lot of the content there.
It is true that the articles are written by the folks that market Succeed products. I will point out that the reader can reach a conclusion that does not result in purchasing anything. The Succeed products have served me well over the years and continue to do so... I have always used the material on their website as a reference and feel it has contributed to getting me through some rough spots. YMMV...
The first one may be written by people who developed Scaps, but Karl definitely does not push them. (2nd one seems a little strong for anything I've seen Karl post.) I've seen him comment on lists about people overusing salt caps of whatever type because of their lack of knowledge. Back when that table was developed, there used to be a lot of discussions on the ultra list about differentiating symptoms. It was an effort to be helpful.
There's a lot of people that get confused about what they're taking and why. (referring to general forum populations, not you) Gotta get some carbs from those salt tablets, etc. Gels are required fuel, etc. (yes, I'm being facetious)
I do use Scaps, but on the order of maybe 10 a year - even this year with as hot as it's been. I've found salty food (pretzels, margarita shot bloks, etc) works about right for me.
My initial post:
1) Karl King sells a lot more than salt caps and too imply that S!Caps are simple salt tablets is, at the least, misleading.
2) I referenced his sight because the articles are well researched and offer information from which to make a decision.
3) I have ran up to 100 km without taking salt supplements (actually won a 100 km during that time, which in the grand scheme of things means nothing other than I had a good run and everyone should use baked Yukon Gold potatoes with salt sprinkled on them).
4) A good diet is just as valuable, but what a good diet is can be argued from even more positions than the salt/electrolyte replacements stuff.
5) I have no credentials regarding sports nutrition and no interest in Succeed! Sports Nutrition products, financial or otherwise.
6. His table is still as good a starting point for analysis as anything out there--which in no way tells a person to use Succeed! products, but merely points at possible places to start the solution process. I don't care if you use ThermoTabls, Endurolytes, S!caps, or salt packets from Burger King (early days salt caps).
On the other hand, post the specifics of disagreement---King has always been available (maybe not here directly, but Karl used to be a member of the 'list and regularly responded to questions about hydration and electrolyte imbalance) for answers.
If it makes everyone feel better, I don't plan to buy any of the products. I really am happy with the Tailwind (which includes electrolytes) and it's just as easy to adjust my mix of that than to do anything else. I typically carry a couple of restaurant salt packets with me, too.
I have seen that table in the first link before and I find it helpful as a starting point. There was also an article floating around about how too many runners were drinking too much...if anyone could point me to that I'd like to read it as well.
I hope you figure out the swelling. What did you think of the race? It is tough one! I even did a few extra miles last year because we got turned around somewhere during the first loop.
It was SUPER tough. I was completely unprepared for the climbing, I'll be honest, and it took for-freakin'-ever for me to finish. But I finished!
Hi NYCNorma - am I guessing correctly that you're female? I am too!
So, I've been discussing Waterlogged, hydration, electrolytes, and swelling a lot with my female training partners, and we seem to think that hydration and electrolytes are different for men versus women.
First thing, unless it's extremely hot, we've all admitted that we typically gain a pound or two from our long runs, and none of us seem to be overdrinking. Also, not associated with feeling ill or off.
Regarding the hand swelling, it happens to most of us, and it seems to happen most often when there is a large change in temperature from the start of the run to the end of the run, or if we climb a lot and have temp changes at peaks. When I'm running on roads, I wave to oncoming cars (raise my hands) and this brings down the swelling a lot for me. One woman claims she swells more during the last week of her menstrual cycle. All of our hands swell - and we all feel good!
Thirdly, we all like the drinkable electrolytes. Only one of my friends uses so much as to want to fill a reservoir with it. I like to use drinkable ones rather than S caps because I can decide whether or not to drink it based on whether it tastes good or not. If it tastes yucky, I stick with water.
Hi NYCNorma - am I guessing correctly that you're female? I am too! So, I've been discussing Waterlogged, hydration, electrolytes, and swelling a lot with my female training partners, and we seem to think that hydration and electrolytes are different for men versus women. First thing, unless it's extremely hot, we've all admitted that we typically gain a pound or two from our long runs, and none of us seem to be overdrinking. Also, not associated with feeling ill or off. Regarding the hand swelling, it happens to most of us, and it seems to happen most often when there is a large change in temperature from the start of the run to the end of the run, or if we climb a lot and have temp changes at peaks. When I'm running on roads, I wave to oncoming cars (raise my hands) and this brings down the swelling a lot for me. One woman claims she swells more during the last week of her menstrual cycle. All of our hands swell - and we all feel good! Thirdly, we all like the drinkable electrolytes. Only one of my friends uses so much as to want to fill a reservoir with it. I like to use drinkable ones rather than S caps because I can decide whether or not to drink it based on whether it tastes good or not. If it tastes yucky, I stick with water.
Waterlogged! That's what I wanted to read.
A lot of what you say makes sense and corresponds to my experiences as well. Not sure about temperature, I'll have to pay attention on my upcoming long runs. Now that you mention it, I have seen more complaints about hand swelling among women--both online and IRL.