Hell, if you can take 1st in the 50 and over AG, I'd say that is pretty damn impressive!  Looks like last couple of years the winner has been around 8:30.  Hope your long run goes well this weekend.  The trail had held up to the rain pretty well last weekend, not really any mud or puddles that couldn't be stepped over easily, so with any luck it will still be in good shape...

Whoa!  Not trying to take first!  Am hoping to have a solid race under 9 hours.  Keep telling myself (the first 25 miles)  "Be patient you idiot!"

I was in Milwaukee for training for 3 days, 2 nights - We had "Team Building" activities at night.  Tuesday was Brewer game.  Wednesday was Margarittas ets.  I declined the drinks and drove the 50 minutes to the Ice age 50M trail.  1st 1:30 was really nice ... then it was really dark and I realize my headlamp was not with good batteries.  Kindof stupid to be running on a trail at night without a good headlamp, when no one knows where you are and there is no traffic (I saw no one in ober 3 hours) and without a cell phone.  But I came out ok - I just could not run the downs as I could nto see well enough to see the rocks or roots.  So I ran the ups and the flats and walked the downs.  I got back to the hotel @ 11:00pm - Ended up a nice nights, but a little spooky and scary.

Being in unfamiliar woods in those situations can be really eery.  You start hearing noises, or think something is behind you.  Don't you guys have panthers down there in southern wisconsin and don't they hunt at night?

DB, you are crazy!   I will run at night or 3AM no problem in fairly rural areas, but running on single track for 3+ hours in the middle of nowhere is nuts.  Glad to hear you had a good run with no accidents though, I remember there was one "creek" crossing that would be really hard to see in the dark because it was so narrow, so your night navigation skills are impressive.

Out of midwest wildlife, my most feared animals in order are:

Mountain lions (I've heard that DNR says they are making a comeback in WI/MI)

Wolves - In packs this is not a good thing.

Bears - Don't want to surprise or piss them off.

Coyotes - Small creatures but in packs can be dangerous

I was in Milwaukee for training for 3 days, 2 nights - We had "Team Building" activities at night.  Tuesday was Brewer game.  Wednesday was Margarittas ets.  I declined the drinks and drove the 50 minutes to the Ice age 50M trail.  1st 1:30 was really nice ... then it was really dark and I realize my headlamp was not with good batteries.  Kindof stupid to be running on a trail at night without a good headlamp, when no one knows where you are and there is no traffic (I saw no one in ober 3 hours) and without a cell phone.  But I came out ok - I just could not run the downs as I could nto see well enough to see the rocks or roots.  So I ran the ups and the flats and walked the downs.  I got back to the hotel @ 11:00pm - Ended up a nice nights, but a little spooky and scary.

Flatfooter:  Glad your injury is better.  I am hopeful you will be 100% for the race.

DB is certainly a great runner.  I don't think you want to get in his way after 30 miles, he'll run you over like a steamroller.  He's a diesel.  Probably takes him a couple of hours just to get limber and in the groove.

I did the training run on Saturday at Ice Age.  Only 19 miles but I ran it pretty hard at an average pace of a little over 9 minutes.  I had quite a few miles in the 8:45 range but they were offset by small hikes up some of the longer/steeper climbs.  Ran with Larry Hall for a few miles.  He's an over 50 age runner from Illinois -- actually a fixture in the Master's division of any ultra in the midwest.  Nice guy, and a great runner.

Goal for me:  I'll be disappointed if I do over 9 hours and ecstatic if I get close to 8 hours.  The training run over the last 20 miles of the trail hit home the message that you've got to have some left in the tank after 30 miles if you want to be close to or under 8 hours.  You can't enter the last 20 miles in "survival mode" because there are significant elevation gains which will reduce your forward motion to over 10 minute miles quickly.

Joe

Ice Age 50M is not a really hard 50M.  It has 7-8,000 of gain / loss.  There are 50ks with that much.  The footing for the most part is pretty good - The rocks and roots are generally far enough apart to lull you to sleep and then one of those bastards will jump up and get you.  Aide Stations are plentiful.

 

It is not the esiest 50M ever - But a fair 50M that you can run a fastish time.

I have grossly overestimated my trail running ability.  I guess that happens when you spend 6 years on the road and treadmill.  I'm trying to get some persepective here... The trail marathon I ran yesterday had about 2500 feet of gain and 2500 fett of loss, so 5000 total.   DB says 7-8000 gain/loss for Ice Age - so that means 15,000 total, right? 

This thing is gonna take me 10 hours to finish.  I hope you all use proper pacing when you reach the keg 2-3 hours before me...  

Basically IA 50 is

1 loop aroung the Nordic Ski trail - 9 miles - You go by the start / finish area at the end of the loop before ...

1 out and back to Rice Lake

1 out and back to Emma Carlin

This means that you can have 3 drop bags

http://www.badgerlandstriders.org/home/Races/IceAgeTrail50M50K/RaceDay/50MileOverview/50MileAidStations.htm

1 at Start finish - Accessible @ mile #9

1 on the Rice Lake out and back accessible at mile # 17 and #26

1 on the Emma Carlin out and back accessible at mile #37 and #43

Aide stations are pretty close together - most people run with 1 handheld.  It is not close enough for me to be sweating it yet, but here are my thoughts:  If I were running this race on gels and s-caps alone, I could put a hydration pack on, refill it once and not have to stop at any other aide station.  If I want to get shots of endurox during the race, then I would run with just a handheld if it was cool and alternate between endurox and h20.  If it was hot I might do a hydropack and handheld.

The year I did it I spoke with Kim Holak before the race and she had nothing - She was going to survive on heed at aide stations.  Mile 30ish I passed her as she was hurling the orange heed on the side of the trail.

Drop bags are nice - But sometimes they are a bitch to find in the midst of 300+ other drop bags

I will likely put out 2 drop bags - on the out and back loops.

This may be a really dumb question but - how do the drop bag areas work?  I'm thinking about going out wearing my hydration pack and if it turns out the aid stations are going to be sufficient in terms of water/fueling, I'd like to dump it at one of the first 3 aid stations and pick it up after the race.  Do they bring items left at the drop bag areas back to the start finish, and are there required markings etc.? 

 

Am I way over thinking this for a 50 miler?

I am a pavement pushing, TM running flat lander.

You have to think a little differently about the 50M - It is an exercise in patience, taking care of nutrition, salt and hydration and then perseverence.  I would challenge you to think about everytime you are going up a mid to steep hill:  "If I were to powerhike up this, how much time would I lose"  Powerhiking does not happen in marathons, but I will use it everytime in a 50M trail race.  So this 1/10th of a mile hill powerhiking, I lose 10-15 seconds over running it.  Now powerhiking uses different muscles and allows my running muscles a break.  I try and stay smooth on the flats to slight incline / declines.  I stay fast, but in control on the downs (Do not fry your quads) and walk steeper ups.  If I was in 6:30 per mile marathon shape, I would be in 8:45 per mile average trail shape (Conditions dependant)  I will be in 7:10 per mile marathon shape, so I will be in 9:20-9:30 per mile trail shape. 

How does it really work - I don't know I just run by feel and it better not feel hard until mile 35.

Yes 14-15K if you add loss and gain.

Glacial 50M in fall has @ 12,500 gain / loss so 25,000 total with your math.

I have grossly overestimated my trail running ability.  I guess that happens when you spend 6 years on the road and treadmill.  I'm trying to get some persepective here... The trail marathon I ran yesterday had about 2500 feet of gain and 2500 fett of loss, so 5000 total.   DB says 7-8000 gain/loss for Ice Age - so that means 15,000 total, right? 

 

This thing is gonna take me 10 hours to finish.  I hope you all use proper pacing when you reach the keg 2-3 hours before me...