Ultra Runners

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100 mile training question (3.5 weeks out) (Read 601 times)


who knows...

    Quick question for the 100 mile veterans. I will be running my first 100 mile race (Mohican 100) on June 20, and perhaps due to the first-time nerves I need to verify my training plan to make sure it is not too stupid. I have run a 50K in April on some of the trails the 100 will take place so I am familiar with the terrain (and do my long runs on similar terrain). On May 9 I ran a 50 mile race for pace (i.e. the pace I hope to be able to maintain for most of the 100). Weekly mileage up until the 50 mile race was usually over 60-70 miles / week. Starting last week I have started running twice a day. This week I plan on running 100 miles with back-to-back long runs Saturday and Sunday (c. 22 and 33 miles) at a slow (9-10 min) pace. My thought is to run 100 miles the next week with a cut (1/2 ?) in mileage the following week. I have heard that the week of the race it is best to do little to no running (maybe one 3-5 mile run at the beginning of the week).

     

    My race plan thus far is to run the first 50 at about 9 hours and allow for 15 hours for the second half (though with the hope I will not take the full amount). Finishing under 24 hours is, of course, my first goal. Finishing period is my second.

     

    Does this sound as logical as it can given that we are talking about a 100 mile run? Wink

    "There is no I in εγω." --Unknown author, source of possible, but in no way certain, Greek origin


    who knows...

      Just to clarify (since my question may have been lost amidst the paragraph), my question was regarding my mileage plan for the coming weeks. Stating previous mileage amounts was for background. I will make 100 miles this week, would running 100 miles next week be of benefit if I taper to 50 the following and run next to nothing the week of the race? I was also concerned about the time ratio for race plan.

       

      It seemed easier to reply to my own post instead of modifying the original.


      "There is no I in εγω." --Unknown author, source of possible, but in no way certain, Greek origin
      Trent


      Good Bad & The Monkey

        Not a 100 mile veteran.  But I wonder, why plan to run a 9/15 split race?

          Sprtb, I have ran several 100 mile races with the only goal to finish and enjoy the outdoors.

           

          From looking at your recent training history you should be in good shape for a 24hr finish.  While I am not familar with your longer history you may actually be over-training(I know I did for my first).

           

          My advice would be to run the first half a little slower, maybe about 10hrs.  Once night falls and you get into uncharted territory(i.e. more miles than you have ever covered in a single run) you do not want your legs to be shot by actually racing the first half.  Unless, by chance, you are looking to actually compete and win

           

          Just keep eating, drinking and 'relentlessly moving forward'.  

           

          You are going to do great.. Let us know how it turns out for you.

           

          Dennis


          who knows...

            Not a 100 mile veteran.  But I wonder, why plan to run a 9/15 split race?

            @TRENT  I was averaging my last two 50 mile races. My last 50 (the faster of the two) was run at a comfortable pace, which to me (not having run a 100 before) seemed doable for a 100--so I was thinking of increasing the time by 30 min. to 1 hour. At 15 hours, I could, if I needed, walk much of the second half. After I posted that split I started thinking more about it. That it caught the attention of both you and Dennis confirms the voice in the back of my head saying it was a bit "weighted."

             

             @DENNIS  I like and am comfortable with readjusting to a 10-14 split. The split really is only to help me mentally before the race--it provides some sense of "knowability" for the unknown. When I am running I have tended not to focus on time but on "feel" (which may work against me if I am not careful about controlling my pace in the first half). Training has been fairly consistent. This week I put in over 100 miles and I thought about doing another 100 mile week the next but I think at that point I am risking over training (and injury) too close to the race. So I suppose the best thing is to start the taper.

             

            Thanks.

            "There is no I in εγω." --Unknown author, source of possible, but in no way certain, Greek origin


            You'll ruin your knees!

              I would agree with those who have suggested slowing down in the first half.  My first 100 was sub 24 and I went out at a pace that felt "rediculously" slow!   I was probably in the bottom 10% at 20 miles, maybe still there at the end of 40 miles... funny thing happened... I didn't slow down much in the last 60 miles and ended up passing people all night long... people that were HOURS ahead of me at 50/60 miles into the race.  I cannot begin to tell you how much energy I "stole" from those runners I was passing at midnight, 1 am, 2 am... etc.  I was still running when many were reduced to a crawl... for some reason, this was an unplanned energy source that would have been totally unaccessible had I gone out faster. 

               

              You can expect strange things to happen at night... mentally, the 100 is waaaaay more than twice a 50.  My advice is to slow down during the daytime... making time on the first half is a dangerous tactic.  For what it is worth, my time at 60 miles was 13:07:25 (which probably puts my 50 mile split around 11 hours) and my finish time was 23:02:25. 

               

              As the others have suggested, it appears you have the mileage base to do well, the only challenge you have at this point is execution! 

               

              Best of luck!

              Lynn B

              ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                I couldn't have said it any better than Lynn.  I did the same thing at my first 100...went out WAAAYYY slower than what "felt" good... and it really paid off big time in the end.  Passing several hundred people in the last 50 is a HUGE emotional boost.

                 

                My splits were 46% out / 54% back.

                 

                I'm a heck of a lot slower than the rest of you guys though. 

                I would agree with those who have suggested slowing down in the first half.  My first 100 was sub 24 and I went out at a pace that felt "rediculously" slow!   I was probably in the bottom 10% at 20 miles, maybe still there at the end of 40 miles... funny thing happened... I didn't slow down much in the last 60 miles and ended up passing people all night long... people that were HOURS ahead of me at 50/60 miles into the race.  I cannot begin to tell you how much energy I "stole" from those runners I was passing at midnight, 1 am, 2 am... etc.  I was still running when many were reduced to a crawl... for some reason, this was an unplanned energy source that would have been totally unaccessible had I gone out faster. 

                 

                You can expect strange things to happen at night... mentally, the 100 is waaaaay more than twice a 50.  My advice is to slow down during the daytime... making time on the first half is a dangerous tactic.  For what it is worth, my time at 60 miles was 13:07:25 (which probably puts my 50 mile split around 11 hours) and my finish time was 23:02:25. 

                 

                As the others have suggested, it appears you have the mileage base to do well, the only challenge you have at this point is execution! 

                 

                Best of luck!

                Lynn B


                who knows...

                  @LYNN, CGERBER Good advice, thanks. In response to all responses here, I will definitely plan on going out slower than I was originally planning.
                  "There is no I in εγω." --Unknown author, source of possible, but in no way certain, Greek origin


                  Wasatch Speedgoat

                    I have been running 100's since 1998 with at least one per year, most years several. By now you would think I would have learned to urn them properly, but no

                    I think it is a lifelong process of adjustment to run your best race...

                     

                    One thing I have learned along the way is that you really cannot go out slow enough. I recently told a very fast runner friend of mine to walk the first 2 miles at Massanutten to keep from going out with the pack, which would certainly cause him to crash and burn due to inexperience. He did this, as much as it was against his grain and all day long slowly moved up the field, finishing 11th place in 25:08. to me that is the perfect 100. He's on his own next year to experiment and learn....

                     

                    Last year at Hardrock I walked out of town and had a great time all day long into the night, all the 2nd day into the 2nd night! Finished in 43 hours around midpack....

                     

                    At Bighorn in 2004 I walked the first several miles and finished 13th in 29:35.

                     

                    At Massanutten in 2005 I walked the first 2 miles and ran 27:35, a pb by over an hour at age 53.

                     

                    My prior races were all not enjoyable, running out from the start and gradually getting slower and sick, having to drop out of many. Even at Vermont in 1998, my first, I had someone with me who was making me walk a lot in the first half. I ended up running 19:45 in 23rd place.

                     

                    So going out slow is "the" most important thing you can do....the 2nd most important thing you can do is not overtrain leading up to the race. With your 100 just 3 weeks out, you should be starting to think about backing off now instead of training. If you run 100 miles this week, you should only run 50 next week and 25 on race week. Race week shouldn't be run much faster than a walk....very low HR to recover from prior training and to rest up for the race. You should be at the starting line wanting to bust out, and then don't...

                     

                    Best of luck and remember you're beter off being more rested than more trained

                    Steve

                    Life is short, play hard!

                    Purdey


                    Self anointed title

                       You should be at the starting line wanting to bust out, and then don't...

                       

                       This may well be the best ultra advice any of us will ever hear.

                       

                       


                      You'll ruin your knees!

                        When I was just getting started in the ultra stuff, a running "mentor" of mine told me...

                         

                        Remember to walk early in a race, then remember to run late in a race... 

                        ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                          A good friend of mine, world class runner Stephanie Ehret, always tells me to run the first 99 miles as slow as I can. 


                          who knows...

                            @STEVE I (reluctantly? gratefully?) decided not to push it this week by running a consecutive 100 mile week so close to the race, last week was 103 miles which seems like a good peak. Previously I overheard someone say that if one can ran 100 miles in a week he/she can run 100 miles in a day. As a result (whether it can be said to be wholly logical) that became my personal litmus test. I will probably average between 60-70 this week and then drop to 50 next and plan to very little the week of the race.

                             

                            @ALL Thanks to all for the unanimous voice. My initial plan had been to run comfortable at the start and alter pace accordingly, walk the hills, and try not to cry too much Smile It certainly sounds that for a sub-24 hour finish it is still best to go out slower than what seems comfortable. In my long runs I have been trying to keep myself at a 9 min pace or slower to get myself used to running effectively at a slower pace (which actually takes more practice than I would have thought) but also to round out the range of muscle training by running regular easy, medium, and hill runs during the rest of the week.

                            "There is no I in εγω." --Unknown author, source of possible, but in no way certain, Greek origin
                              Good luck
                              And you know sometimes it gets so painful Just like talking to yourself When everything don't seem to have no rhyme or reason We all go Do do loo do do, do do loo do do Waiting for the sun to shine
                              Trent


                              Good Bad & The Monkey

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