Ultra Runners

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Difference between ultra / trail and road ? (Read 689 times)

DoppleBock


    I ran my 1st 50 miler off nothing but flat road marathon training ~ I did fine ~ because I paced easy enough ... walked uphills and ate / drank a lot.

     

    There is a whole different rythm on the trail ~ I ran run 26 miles easy on technical hilly trail - Say in 4:30 and it takes little out of me.  I can pound the same trail in 4:00 and I know I worked hard.  What I love about trail training runs ~ There is no one around I can walk any damn time I want to without carrying.  I usually do not walk during a road workout as I feel shame in gallow-walking.  Not sure why - But I guess its a pride thing.  I know if I try and run every step of a 50 mile trail race that is hilly ~ The trail will win.  The trail has humbled me many times ... to the point that I just go with the rythm of the trail on that day and do not try and force my will on the trail ~ Unless it is the last 10 miles of a race.

     

    I have done 50+ mile Treadmill runs, 50+ mile road runs and 40+ mile trail runs in training.  The trail runs beat you up the least ... well except sometimes the bottoms of your feet feel like they have been tendorized.

    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

     

    xor


      OMG... 26 and 35 training runs!!!

       

      Welcome to the land of ultras.

       


      Not A Runner

         

        I have done 50+ mile Treadmill runs, 50+ mile road runs and 40+ mile trail runs in training.

         

        Can you believe the ego on this guy?  Wink

        I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

        xor


          Do you like cherries?

           

          DoppleBock


            ,,I,,

             

            I mean that with love and support 

             

            Can you believe the ego on this guy?  Wink

            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

             


            Fat butt on couch

              OMG... 26 and 35 training runs!!!

               

              This is why I found an ultra to serve as a "training run".  Yes, it's 4 months before my race and I will likely need to do others, but...dang...yeah, OMG, 35 mile training runs...

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               


              Marquess of Utopia

                I understand the whole trail vs road mentality, but shouldn’t it be: “hilly vs (flat or rolling)” or “supported vs self supported”.

                 

                If I was going to run a 50k-100k on a flat crushed limestone trail with aid stations every 2-5 miles I would treat it like a normal marathon road race. I’m looking into the details of the Wilder 100k(Gravel Road) a little closer after I blew up on my last 30 mile training run. From miles 10-26 I climbed almost 1200ft. My mistake was running the hills like intervals. Joking

                 

                I talked to a friend that rode Almanzo in the past and he said it was hilly. So when I first read this blog about the race I was surprised: http://wilderfootraces.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/welcome/ (1600ft / 100k) is only 16 feet per kilometer. 

                 

                According to my calculation it is more like 5800ft: http://www.runningahead.com/logs/64cf3fe91ca547dbbadf40dc463ba1c2/courses/d88895cd3d194c938902ce952075e4b6 (This may not be the actual course, but it seems like the logical choice)

                For a flatlander like me that is very serious! I’m not going to treat this like a road race: with only two water stops one drop bag and 62+ miles of gravel I’ll go for conservative pacing.  If things are going bad halfway into the race I’ll pack a box of powered doughnuts in my drop bag and just enjoy the beautiful countryside.


                Marquess of Utopia

                  Can you believe the ego on this guy?  Wink

                   Is there a World record for 50 miles on a treadmill? Smile

                  DoppleBock


                    I am sure there is - I know Serge Arbona ran 150+ miles in 24 hours a few years back

                     

                    I have no desire to look it up 

                     

                     Is there a World record for 50 miles on a treadmill? Smile

                    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                     

                      I am sure there is - I know Serge Arbona ran 150+ miles in 24 hours a few years back

                       

                      I have no desire to look it up 

                       I looked it up.

                       

                      Christopher Bergland beat Serge's record a few months later. 153.76. Serge ran 152.27.

                       

                      http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/treadmill.html

                      marathon maniac #1293 2012 Goals 2000 miles - 100 miles in NC24-Fall

                        here's the 50 mile record. Im assuming that these records need to be set in a controlled environment and treadmills, tested, etc to count. Reminds me of the movie 'King of Kong'

                         

                        50 mi: Martin Tighe (USA), 6:06:19 hrs, on 19 March 2005

                        marathon maniac #1293 2012 Goals 2000 miles - 100 miles in NC24-Fall

                        xor


                          >> I understand the whole trail vs road mentality, but shouldn’t it be: “hilly vs (flat or rolling)” or “supported vs self supported”.

                           

                          Those are two big pieces, but not all of it.  For one, hills on trails can be a whole lot gnarlier than what you consider "hilly" in road terms.  1200 feet over 16 miles?  Um... yeah.  Road hilly.  Another thing is surface.  Sure, dirt and gravel and asphalt and concrete all feel different from each other.  And something like sand is hella harder to run in than on asphalt.  BUT... there's also surface stability and the "technical" nature of the trail.  Rails to trails?  Those are mostly like road.  Once you start getting into roots and rocks on single track, life changes a lot.  Especially over 50+ miles of it.

                           

                          And ask Gumbee about "jeep road".  Hehehehehe.

                           

                          ANYWAY, none of that probably matters in the race you are looking at.

                           

                          More power to you if you can conquer a road 100k at marathon pace.  I would die.

                           


                          Spring- wishful thinking

                            I understand the whole trail vs road mentality, but shouldn’t it be: “hilly vs (flat or rolling)” or “supported vs self supported”.

                             

                            If I was going to run a 50k-100k on a flat crushed limestone trail with aid stations every 2-5 miles I would treat it like a normal marathon road race. I’m looking into the details of the Wilder 100k(Gravel Road) a little closer after I blew up on my last 30 mile training run. From miles 10-26 I climbed almost 1200ft. My mistake was running the hills like intervals. Joking

                             

                            I talked to a friend that rode Almanzo in the past and he said it was hilly. So when I first read this blog about the race I was surprised: http://wilderfootraces.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/welcome/ (1600ft / 100k) is only 16 feet per kilometer. 

                             

                            According to my calculation it is more like 5800ft: http://www.runningahead.com/logs/64cf3fe91ca547dbbadf40dc463ba1c2/courses/d88895cd3d194c938902ce952075e4b6 (This may not be the actual course, but it seems like the logical choice)

                            For a flatlander like me that is very serious! I’m not going to treat this like a road race: with only two water stops one drop bag and 62+ miles of gravel I’ll go for conservative pacing.  If things are going bad halfway into the race I’ll pack a box of powered doughnuts in my drop bag and just enjoy the beautiful countryside.

                             

                            I think the bigger difference between trails and roads is technical difficulty.  Some trails, like the ones I run on every day are pretty much as smooth as roads and have the same elevation gain/loss and nearby roads.  They are crushed limestone and easy to run on.  Single track though may have rocks and roots which require constant focus on what is in front of your feet.  They may have frequent sharp turns, small but steep climbs and drops, etc. 


                            Ultrarunning.com's race calendar has a rating system for both terrain and surface which captures most of those points.  Self supported vs supported may depend on the course.  In a loop course with multiple loops support may not matter. 

                            xor


                              FWIW, I am pondering a 50k the day everyone is running ice age.  My 50k has 9000ft of gain (and a matching amount of loss) over 31ish miles.  So, 4500-4800 over 16 miles.  Requires a different approach than 1200 over 16... though in both cases, going out too fast is going out too fast.

                               


                                And ask Gumbee about "jeep road".  Hehehehehe.

                                 

                                 You just HAD to bring up jeep roads, didntcha Sad

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