Ultra Runners

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Snowdrop 55 report (Read 34 times)

bhearn


    Over New Years I ran my first multiday, the Snowdrop 55-hour.

     

    Here's my very long report:

     

    http://bobhearn.blogspot.com/2018/01/snowdrop-55-hour-2017-2018.html

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?

      More de ja vu. I feel like I've read this before.

       2024 Races:

            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

            05/11 - D3 50K
            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

       

       

           

      fimmx


        Congratulations on setting the AR! Another excellent race report as always. How *do* you possibly remember all these details about your races? What a treasure trove for future reference. My best for your recovery.

        AT-runner


        Tim

          Nice job, Bob. As I said on FB, the part about forgetting the mental training seminar is classic.

           

          I've done one 48 hour, and learned a ton about myself.  Sleep deprivation and accumulated muscle fatigue were, for me, more than twice as bad as a 24hr.

           

          One of my big problem is I don't fall asleep easily, so if I try to get a short cat nap, I feel like I'm just wasting time and don't fall asleep.  I have to wait for total fatigue so I can fall asleep, and be far away from AS or Start/Finish area noise.

          “Paralysis-to-50k” training plan is underway! 

          paul2432


            I enjoyed the report.  One critical takeaway for me is the technique of combining walking with running at your natural pace to achieve a desired overall pace.  Do you use this technique in trail 100-mile races, or are those not long enough to need it?  Or the terrain to varied to be able to apply it?

            Bert-o


            I lost my rama

              Congrats and great RR!  There's a lot to take away and digest as a newbie.  Thanks for sharing.

              3/17 - NYC Half

              4/28 - Big Sur Marathon  DNS

              6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour

              8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours

              bhearn


                Congratulations on setting the AR! Another excellent race report as always. How *do* you possibly remember all these details about your races? What a treasure trove for future reference. My best for your recovery.

                 

                Thanks. Really the main reason I write the reports is so I won't forget all those details. Having the laps splits and resulting pace chart in front of me helps a lot -- the first thing I did is figure out which ones were naps, medical stops, etc. And I did have to double-check a few points with my crew.

                bhearn


                  I enjoyed the report.  One critical takeaway for me is the technique of combining walking with running at your natural pace to achieve a desired overall pace.  Do you use this technique in trail 100-mile races, or are those not long enough to need it?  Or the terrain to varied to be able to apply it?

                   

                  In 100-mile races I basically walk the hills and run the flats and downhills, like everyone else. But of course there is the question of what is a hill. Often I will be walking early "up" something that really does not look or feel like a hill.

                   

                  For Spartathlon, a 153-mile road race with hills (and a mountain trail 100 miles in), I plan splits for each of the 75 checkpoints and carry a pace chart. That's probably overkill. But you can't pace that evenly. And again I am often walking early to go slow enough, on anything I can even remotely call a hill.

                  strambo


                    Hi Bob,

                     

                    I loved reading the race report, congrats!  I'm a newb to endurance running.  Trying to wrap my head around nutrition, that you skipped the pizza really caught my attention.

                     

                    I'm very fat-adapted, I eat mostly Paleo, sometimes deliberately very low carb/keto (under 30g/day), I also intermittent fast frequently and right now am on day 4 of a 5 day fast (it's amazing how "normal" I feel, doing body weight strength workouts and short easy runs).  I've hiked 26 miles in a fasted state with no issues (after carb-loading on Thanksgiving the day prior).  I now realize at a higher intensity level I'd have "bonked" just don't know what that is?

                     

                    What does your nutrition look like the few days prior to an ultra?  Does our body replenish liver and muscle glycogen with excess fats and proteins or does we have to eat carbs for that?  How many carb grams does it really take to be full on glycogen (for a 170-ish lb male). I suspect the typical marathoner/endurance runner is eating way too many carbs than needed...

                    bhearn


                      Thanks. I try to maintain a keto diet, generally 20-30 g / day, to maximize fat burning adaptation. The goal is to need fewer in-race calories, to minimize GI issues.

                       

                      For quite a while I still did a mini-carb load before an ultra, though, thinking that a day or so of carbs would not mess up months of adaptation, and why not start with a full tank of more efficient fuel? But gradually I realized that this correlated well with bonking hard 9-10 hours into the race. I would have a rough hour, and then I'd recover and run strong the rest of the way, still on low calories. After working with a sports nutritionist I got an explanation. When the liver has plenty of glycogen, it inhibits (via the vagus nerve) fat mobilization. This take some time to reset when it gets depleted. This is a new discovery as of a few years ago.

                       

                      So actually my goal going into a race is to be very low on glycogen. I burn body fat and 100-150 cal. / hour of ingested carbs. I've had no bonks in the several long races I've done this way. The liver does make some carbs with gluconeogenesis, but these mostly go to fuel the brain. Unfortunately there is no test for muscle glycogen level other than a biopsy, so it is hard to really know. If I'm inactive and don't eat carbs, is there enough extra glucose produced to gradually refill glycogen stores? I expect so. That's one reason I make sure to not taper to zero before a race.

                      strambo


                        Thanks!  Very helpful.  I've done a lot of slower paced long physical activity in my life on little/no food, but I haven't ever "bonked."  I'll have to do that on purpose in training to see when and how it happens I guess.

                        RWD


                          Great race report, chock full of information that even a slowpoke like me can use for my next 24 hour run attempt (the first one went very poorly).

                          a smith


                          king of the non-sequitur

                            Bob, Wow what a great report! Thanks for sharing! I have one specific question: did you use the stock inserts in the claytons or did you add additional padding? just curious because ive been to chicken to use then for anything ultra distance but like them with softer inserts.

                            -alan

                             

                            Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39

                            Cottontail 6 Hour 4-13-24

                            Cougar Long Series (May,June,July,Aug 2024)

                            Carkeek 6 Hour 10-19-24 

                            bhearn


                              Great question. Hoka changed their insoles around the time the Clayton 2 came out. Now they are thin and flat. Before they were more shaped and had a heel cup. I am using the older insoles from old Claytons. Without those my heels slide around. Also with heel lifts; I need more than 5mm drop.

                               

                              But additional padding... no, not really. I guess the older insoles do have slightly more padding. But really the cushion comes from the midsole.

                              a smith


                              king of the non-sequitur

                                thanks. i'be been taking the thicker inserts from my clifton3's or speed instincts and putting them in the claytons. i think they are less responsive but a little more springy. i hope you recover well, thanks again. i really appreciate your comments on fat adaptation but was surprised that you werent taking as many calories as fats and real foods during the race.

                                 

                                Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39

                                Cottontail 6 Hour 4-13-24

                                Cougar Long Series (May,June,July,Aug 2024)

                                Carkeek 6 Hour 10-19-24 

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