Funny, I was going to ask this very thing.

This topic was touched on earlier today in the main forums but I was

thinking that asking in here would get more responses.  I am somewhat confused

about the whole  run walk thing.  But then I'm easily confused.

You might look at Karl King's article "The Advantage of a Run/Walk Strategy for 24 Hour Runs" in A Step Beyond: Definitive Guide to Ultrarunning" or the original 1994 article in Ultrarunning for some justification for 25min run : 5 min walk in 24-hr race. No 24-hr experience myself (10-hr is only fixed time race I've done). IIRC, both the 25-min and 5-min intervals had some physiological basis, and the run / walk allowed you to run at a pace / effort closer to normal then recover. Running straight through would generally be a slower pace than most people train at - or at least that was the theory. Plus, much like hilly races, the run / walk provides a change in muscle usage.

I have dropped the ball in all of my 24-hour races when it comes to hydration/electrolyte balance.  I think that being so close to an aid station for short-loop fixed-time races warps me somewhat and keeps me overhydrating and overeating.  I handled the problem okay at Merrill's Mile 24 Hour in September and got a fix on the hydration errors, thankfully (but still dropped out at 41 miles 9 hours into the race due to severe shin splints). 

I somehow got a handle on the balance by resolving to treat the 24-hour as though it were a point-to-point race and, as such, only visiting the aid station every five miles or so. 

I usually pick specific walk-break portions of the loop and adhere to them most of the time.  If there are hills on the course, then the walk breaks are an easy decision.  If the race is flat, then I will pick landmarks for walk breaks or utilize my Galloway intervals by which I learned while training for my first marathon years ago. 

I have 24 Hours of HOSTELity in mid-January.  It's a 0.65 mile loop with 100 feet of elevation, so I've got my work cut out for me. 

On a whim at the Pac Rim (one-mile loop) I decided to run two laps, walk one.  The

24 hours was secondary.  I was more interested in what sort of 50-mile time that

pattern would get me.  It was a little under ten hours when I hit fifty.

I was running 8:30-8:45s and walking 15ish.  During the next week's "playing with it in

my mind" runs I really wished I had gone there with the intent to run the 24 hours.

A major downfall (I was fit enough to be closer to nine hours) was the social

aspect of time events.  There were quite a few people I had not seen for a whle.

A "while" being anywhere from a few weeks to a few years.  The renewal of

friendships and conversations had me switching from my pace to his pace

and presto!  I was no longer running my race.

I think it was Ann Trason (several years back) who talked about staying within

your race.  Wishing I could come up with something original, but failing, I

paraphrased her:  Run your plan.  Stay within your realm.  Don't feel bad if

someone passes you.  Don't chortle with glee if you pass someone.  Keep

a sense of what your are about.  Keep pressing on, maybe it is one of those

good days when you pick it up and keep on picking it up.

Sorry, this stuff is never as concise as it was intended to be.

rgot

That is the best / hardest to follow advice - Stay within your plan or at least the variations of your plan.  Since my plan is based on effort - It is easier to stay within my plan.  You do have to allow for obviously needed audibles - If it is windier that all get out and it is suppose to calm down after dark, don;t fight the wind.  If it is hotter than hell and it will cool significantly at night - Don't fight the heat.

Taking wastes needed Oxygen, but can supply a mental boost.  I tend to preserve my o2 

On a whim at the Pac Rim (one-mile loop) I decided to run two laps, walk one.  The

24 hours was secondary.  I was more interested in what sort of 50-mile time that

pattern would get me.  It was a little under ten hours when I hit fifty.

 

I was running 8:30-8:45s and walking 15ish.  During the next week's "playing with it in

my mind" runs I really wished I had gone there with the intent to run the 24 hours.

 

A major downfall (I was fit enough to be closer to nine hours) was the social

aspect of time events.  There were quite a few people I had not seen for a whle.

A "while" being anywhere from a few weeks to a few years.  The renewal of

friendships and conversations had me switching from my pace to his pace

and presto!  I was no longer running my race.

 

I think it was Ann Trason (several years back) who talked about staying within

your race.  Wishing I could come up with something original, but failing, I

paraphrased her:  Run your plan.  Stay within your realm.  Don't feel bad if

someone passes you.  Don't chortle with glee if you pass someone.  Keep

a sense of what your are about.  Keep pressing on, maybe it is one of those

good days when you pick it up and keep on picking it up.

 

Sorry, this stuff is never as concise as it was intended to be.

 

rgot

I was wondering if anyone has used the McMillian calculator for pacing/training strategy for a 24 hr race?    For people with experience with flat/track 24hr ultras do his paces make sense? 

 

For example, I just ran a 8:11 marathon (to make it easy, I'll pretend I ran a 8:00 pace).

McMillian calculators then extrapolates this to

50k  - 8:12 pace

50M - 9:19

100k - 9:53

100M - 12:08

 

So for 100M/24hr, can you then estimate to run something like 2 miles at 10 mpm and then walk 1 mile at 17 mpm?

 

For my marathon, I was at 55-60miles per week with a lot of miles at 8 mpm.  I'm planning on trying to up my weekly mileage and run most of my miles at 9-9:30mpm pace (at sub Maffetone heart rate).  I've always wanted to try a longer race 100m or 24 hr race and figure that after 3-4 months of this type of training might be a good time to try one.

Assuming a reasonable mileage base, and by reasonable I mean >30 mpw, 100M/24Hr is ultimately a test of mental endurance. Before stepping up to that, try to get in a couple of 8 hour races, like a 50 miler or 8 hour fixed time (wish there were more of those).  There is a point, somewhere around 4-6 hours, where the body is just screaming at you to give up, but you find that you can just keep going.  The first few times, it helps to get over that hurdle by knowing that the agony will end in short order, rather than 20 or more hours later.

What has worked for me has been run 8 minutes, walk 2 minutes, repeat for as long as possible.  Towards the end, this might decay to run 5, walk 5.  Walking for an entire mile, or walking because the wheels have come off, is extraordinarily demoralizing.  As far as 8/2 or 25/5, there is virtually no difference in pace, so in the end, it is worthwhile to try each system to see which works better.

I don't think they make any sense - they are wildly optimistic.  If your marathon pr is at 8:00 per mile, I don't think you will be running a 50 miler at 9:19 pace, let alone a 100 mi at 12:08 per mile. YMMV.

Any real life examples of what might be reasonably expected?