2013 Sub-3:00 Marathon Goal Thread (Read 2194 times)

spinach


    I am about to start my training for Fargo in three months.  The last two months I have only been running to maintain some conditioning, only around thirty a week with only a couple runs longer than 7 miles.  Yesterday I ran a half marathon with the temperature in the low single digits (although no wind). I ran it at what was a comfortable pace that I felt I could easily  keep going at for many more miles.  I was quite shocked when I finished and saw my time was 1:28:30. I guess I haven't lost as much as I feared over the winter.  I am curious at what i could have run in better conditions and wearing less clothes than I had on yesterday.  My next half isn't for another two months, I will look for one in March.

     

    My prep for Fargo is starting this week, this was a nice way to start the training.

      Could you please put me on the list for Chicago marathon? :

       

            calbearsfan(47/no) – 13OCT2013 – Chicago marathon (Chicago, IL) Goal = 2:59:59 RESULT = ______

       

      Thanks.


      Right on Hereford...

        Update for Boston training...

         

        Had a setback during Saturday's workout just over a week ago. We did 6 x 7 minutes, alternating between marathon and half marathon pace. It felt hard, I wasn't able to run the paces I expected, and it was the last day of a 77 mile week, my 2nd highest mileage ever. In retrospect, not too surprising that I tweaked something.

         

        That "something" turned out to be my left tibialis posterior, which attaches to plantar (under the arch), wraps around the inside ankle bone, and lays underneath the gastroc and soleus. It's actually the primary stabilizing muscle of the lower leg. The point that is sore is right where it wraps around my ankle bone.

         

        So, I somewhat stupidly ran a hilly 16.5 miles the next day, and it was worse on Monday. I really backed off all week, did a shorter version of the Wednesday night workout (2 miles at MP, 2 x 1 mile at HMP), and did a mini-taper for my scheduled half marathon race on Sunday. Really wasn't sure if I should try racing the half, running it as an easy long run, or skipping it. I ended up going for it and ran 1:27:29 on what turned out to be a very hilly course.

         

        So, hopefully I can heal up and get back on track for Boston. Right now I think sub-3 should be good, assuming my ankle gets better. 2:55 is iffy.

         

        Training went well this week.

         

        Strong 10 miles on Monday with 5mi tempo @ 6:20 pace, a couple nice medium long runs, and a solid 21 mi today unexpectedly with the last 5mi around MP (6:50s).  I think the relative rest last week was helpful, and I'm happy to get a quality week in before heavy business travel the rest of the month.

         

        I have a question...the training program I'm doing (Pfitz) has ~8x100m strides every week.  Does anyone do you do these on the treadmill?  I've tried ramping up to ~10mph and running for ~.1mi, but I always seem to have a sore / tweaked muscle the day after.  Any tips?

         

        Lagwagon, those are strong runs you did earlier. Looks like you are definitely on track.

         

        For the strides, if 8x100m for .1mi at 10mph is making you feel tweaked, back off to 5 or 6 x 30 seconds at 9 - 9.5 mph. If that goes fine, work back up from there. Strides should always feel smooth and "flowy", not like you're straining.

        aretequest


          That would be me. In principle. Training is not so great so far. Pulled my hamstring just before last goal marathon, Thanksgiving, and it's still not 100%. So the miles have been low, and the speedwork has been dialed back. Then, I ran a 100 miler a week and a half ago. Got through it OK, actually could hardly tell I'd run it a couple days later. But the hamstring is still there, and now the right knee is acting up again a bit -- that sidelined me the entire summer in '11, so I'm going to be careful here.

           

          Cautiously optimistic I will still get into sub-3 shape for Boston, but the original goal of 2:55... well, we'll see. I have a ways to go. Things will have to start going right.

           

          How's your training been going the last couple of weeks?  I hope well and that your hamstring/knee pain is far behind you by now.  It actually was your excellent post (the best running-related post I have read online for some time) contrasting Pfitz and Hanson which convinced me to commit to the Hanson plan this year.

           

          I bought a custom plan from the author (Luke Humphrey) last January (before he published the book).  I liked what I saw, but was a little intimidated frankly.  Instead I did a year of Hadd-inspired training.  Running the most mileage in my life.  Unfortunately, I don't think I handled the volume well (or approached it the wrong way) and my times actually got slower.  So after reading and thinking about your post (and comparing the Hanson plan to the customizations the guys in the RWOL sub 3 thread had done to break through to their sub 3 performances) I decided to dust off the plan and give it a try.

           

          Now that I am deep into it I am starting to really enjoy and appreciate its cadence.  Most specifically, I think what I am liking most is the slow steady (but intense) buildup overtime.  Instead of focusing on building up for a few big/dramatic workouts (e.g. 5x1200, 7M @ LT, 14M @ GMP) like Pfitz seems to do, this Hanson approach has a "wax on, wax off"/ "steady as she goes" feel to it.  Each week is a little more challenging than the prior but nothing dramatically different.  Next thing you know I am doing 6M at LT (e.g. 1.5Mx4) on a Monday, 9M @ GMP on a Wed and 18M on Sat...all in the midst of a 70M week...and it feels *almost* normal.

           

          Interesting.

           

          Oh well, I'd like to hear your thoughts.  I am a bit surprised at how I am taking to it actually after 5+ years with Pfitz.  Proof of the pudding will be in April...but so far so good, I think (knock on wood).


          I'm back!

             How's your training been going the last couple of weeks?  I hope well and that your hamstring/knee pain is far behind you by now.  It actually was your excellent post (the best running-related post I have read online for some time) contrasting Pfitz and Hanson which convinced me to commit to the Hanson plan this year.

            Well, nothing has really changed. I can't seem to get over 50 mpw, or do the speed workouts adequately. I'm close to writing off Boston, and just taking a few weeks completely off. But I'm not quite there yet.

             

            I'm happy to see that the transition is going well for you. That gives me hope for the fall, at least! Good luck.

              Now that I am deep into it I am starting to really enjoy and appreciate its cadence.  Most specifically, I think what I am liking most is the slow steady (but intense) buildup overtime.  Instead of focusing on building up for a few big/dramatic workouts (e.g. 5x1200, 7M @ LT, 14M @ GMP) like Pfitz seems to do, this Hanson approach has a "wax on, wax off"/ "steady as she goes" feel to it.  Each week is a little more challenging than the prior but nothing dramatically different.  Next thing you know I am doing 6M at LT (e.g. 1.5Mx4) on a Monday, 9M @ GMP on a Wed and 18M on Sat...all in the midst of a 70M week...and it feels *almost* normal.

               

              aretequest-good post, and sounds like you're doing well with the Hansons plan.

               

              I'm doing Pfitz (first time) and wonder,  is that really a material difference v Hansons?  6M@LT vs 7mi@LT isnt huge, and the 14@GMP is a dialed back HM.  Sounds like your last week has nearly both of these and a nice long run.  Personally, I would need a recovery week after the one you reference (incidentally the "recovery week" is one of my favorite aspects of the Pfitz plan, always comes just in time.  I suppose hansons has something similar.)

               

              I guess the characterization of these as "big/dramatic" strikes me as I perceive it as you perceive hansons...the result of a steady build..the tempos increase by 1m every 2-3 weeks, and the MP by 2 mi at the same intervals.  actually, the biggest drama for me was the first LT and first MP run (anxious).

               

               

              Dakota, thanks for the feedback.  nice race, I hope the zeros in your log this week are planned rest (probably not a bad idea) or pending update.  I do need to hit the strides more, on and off the treadmill...its the only aspect of my training that I'm kinda now blowing off.  (well, stretching is a close second)

                I keep seeing posts about "strides" and I'm starting to think that my terminology is off...I always thought of strides basically as doing a pick-up to target interval speed on the straights and easy on the turns for a few laps before going into a track workout. Are "strides" in general just the faster parts of a fartlek or am I missing a whole category of workout? Thanks!

                 

                 

                Also, I've heard bad things about an overpass/bridge in the Providence Marathon so I'm changing my goal race to Maine Coast (still on 5/12).


                Right on Hereford...

                   

                  Dakota, thanks for the feedback.  nice race, I hope the zeros in your log this week are planned rest (probably not a bad idea) or pending update.  I do need to hit the strides more, on and off the treadmill...its the only aspect of my training that I'm kinda now blowing off.  (well, stretching is a close second)

                   

                  Yeah, had a pretty good week after my race last weekend. Got in three really easy days, an easy 10, a Wednesday interval session, and a tempo run today. At the Wed night workout I had tired legs (expected after my race), but ran ok (5 x 2.5 minutes at HM pace, then 5 minutes with a pickup at the end). Today's tempo run was 15 minutes at marathon pace (6:38), 10 minutes at HM pace (6:28), and 5 minutes at 10k pace (6:06). 64 miles this week. My ankle is feeling better and better. Compression socks on, fueling up, and resting up for tomorrow's 20+ miler.

                   

                  delucj, your idea of strides is the same thing most of us are talking about, except that in addition to doing strides before getting into the "meat" of a workout, a lot of us will add a set of strides to an easy run. Personally, I do 6x30sec strides with 1min recoveries twice a week on easy days, in addition to a set of "warmup" strides on my two workout days.


                  HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                    My marathon is in a week, and I raced a hilly trail 4-miler today. Not sure if that was a good idea, but have been told of people racing 5K the week before, and figured 4mi is just like 5K. Tonight I was looking at some online articles on tapering, which vary *wildly*, and one said to stay away from hills. Well, what is done is done.

                    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                    Bacon Party!

                      My marathon is in a week, and I raced a hilly trail 4-miler today. Not sure if that was a good idea, but have been told of people racing 5K the week before, and figured 4mi is just like 5K. Tonight I was looking at some online articles on tapering, which vary *wildly*, and one said to stay away from hills. Well, what is done is done.

                       

                      The two you didn't read said, "Hilly trail race one week out = good!"

                      Good luck!

                      Liz

                      pace sera, sera


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        Thanks. I'm looking forward to more free time this week (due to substantially less running).

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                          Ran marathon in LA with a first attempt to break 3 hours. Everything went very smoothly and I finished my race in 2:58:58. Which is almost 8 minutes PR. Felt great after the race, legs were feeling it on Monday but today they are getting much better. Clive, could you please put my time into the results part of the races table?

                            Congrats calbearsfan!


                            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                              Congrats calbearsfan!

                               

                              Failure for me - just under 3:03. But it was still a PR. During the latter half I was thinking that I don't ever want to run that distance again. Two days later I was considering tactics to do better next year.

                              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                              aretequest


                                 

                                aretequest-good post, and sounds like you're doing well with the Hansons plan.

                                 

                                I'm doing Pfitz (first time) and wonder,  is that really a material difference v Hansons?  6M@LT vs 7mi@LT isnt huge, and the 14@GMP is a dialed back HM.  Sounds like your last week has nearly both of these and a nice long run.  Personally, I would need a recovery week after the one you reference (incidentally the "recovery week" is one of my favorite aspects of the Pfitz plan, always comes just in time.  I suppose hansons has something similar.)

                                 

                                I guess the characterization of these as "big/dramatic" strikes me as I perceive it as you perceive hansons...the result of a steady build..the tempos increase by 1m every 2-3 weeks, and the MP by 2 mi at the same intervals.  actually, the biggest drama for me was the first LT and first MP run (anxious).

                                 

                                Thanks for your comments.  I used Pfitz for about 9 marathons and am a big fan.  However, I did eventually plateau so thought it was a good idea to change things up.  Last year I tried lower-intensity/high volume stuff that didn't pan out for me in terms of race results but may have built me a nice base for hopefully future progress.  I am a fan of Pfitz and would recommend his plans to anyone without hesitation.  Since Lydiard influenced both Pfitz and the Hanson's plan I think there are some similarities   But in the end they differ in both the volume of race specific GMP mileage as well as the overall cadence/flow of the training.  Take a look at Bhearn's post for the difference of mileage runs at the various paces and this will leave no doubt about the significant differences over the course of a cycle.    Qualitatively I still feel a considerable difference in the flow of the plan.  It is kind of hard to put in words.  The transitions and buildup in Hanson's seems to be smoother, less sudden/jagged.  That is how it feels anyhow.  Also, on my run today I was thinking perhaps one way to describe some of the difference is Pfitz left me more sore/beatup heading into big runs/whileas Hansons makes me feel more tired.  Sore vs. Tired.  Maybe?

                                 

                                As for results.  I guess I'll have to wait and see.  I am very, very encouraged by Calbears inspirational performance Sun.  He is one tough dude (as evidence by his run at CIM) so I know that contributed to his great progress....but I'm also hoping that his experience with Hanson's helped too.   I guess we will only know when he publishes his RR???  (Hint, Hint....)