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Prerequisites for a 12hr race (Read 183 times)


Joggaholic

    I am new to running ultras. I want to know if there are some recommended (not bare minimum) experience before even training for one, things that would indicate that I have the required base and/or endurance to start training and doing the race without either one turning out to be complete misery?

     

    I am considering the 12hr at Ultracentric in mid-Nov, and my goal is to complete >50 miles and not have a death-march or need to sit out at the end. The course is a flat 2-mile asphalt loop so I figured it will be good for a newbie. (I normally run alone on roads, so not needing to worry about support issues is important)

     

    Given 4 months and my current fitness, I'm trying to judge where on the suffering-scale the training and racing will be on (I'm fairly risk-averse so I probably won't undertake this if the pain level is too high). I've been doing >200 mi months since beginning of this year, but my long runs normally do not extend beyond 13 miles (~2hrs). The longest I have done was 8+ hours (40 mi) on the treadmill which incorporated frequent breaks (every 10-15 minutes), but that was just a one-time stunt. (If you look at my last 2 month's workouts they're not normal. Jan-May are more representative of my normal training load)

     

    Thanks!


    Feeling the growl again

      A lobotomy.  Big grin

       

      If you could do 8 hrs on the TM with some breaks I would say you are in the neighborhood of where you need to be for your 12-hour.  But I'm sure more experienced people will be along to comment.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        You should be able to do 50 miles easy in the 12 hour.  Let's say a 5 hour marathon followed by a 7 hour marathon? (not sure if that's how it works in reality)  My friends who run this 12/24 hours races, run much less than I do (around 120-140 miles/month) and seem to be able to pull off 50-55 miles for the 12 hours and 65-75 for 24 hours, they are not really racing at the 24 hour things, just do 50-55 miles during the day, sleep, wake up and do some kind of run/walk for 2-3 hours or so the next morning.


        Joggaholic

          Let's say a 5 hour marathon followed by a 7 hour marathon?

           

          I was hesitant to do the math based on zero experience myself because I don't know what the last few hours of an ultra is like (similar to how the last 6 miles of a marathon can be completely different than the first 20?) That's why I want to hear from the experts like you Smile

             

            That's why I want to hear from the experts like you Smile

            Funny guy.  My experience with these things is spectating and running a few laps with the folks doing this insanity. I can never run loops like that without losing my mind.  Have run 10 miles on a one mile loop once, and likely will never do that again


            I'm back!

              That's the great thing about timed races -- unlike a 50k, 50M etc., you can't DNF. Technically anyone can do one. To do well... well, back-to-back long runs will help. Try two marathons in one weekend if you can.

               

              In my three 12-hour races, what I've found is that it's very, very hard to start slow enough. Be firm with yourself that you will go out on goal pace. For completing 50M, yeah, that's pretty slow, probably means frequent breaks. But don't be scared to go that slow, even though everyone else is running easy, and a lot faster. They'll be sorry later. You're not giving anything up; there will be plenty of time left to speed up if you *really* went too slow and are good for more miles. So yeah, I'm saying it is possible to run even splits, even in a 12-hour. If you run smart, you won't slow down.

                That's the great thing about timed races -- unlike a 50k, 50M etc., you can't DNF. Technically anyone can do one. To do well... well, back-to-back long runs will help. Try two marathons in one weekend if you can.

                 

                In my three 12-hour races, what I've found is that it's very, very hard to start slow enough. Be firm with yourself that you will go out on goal pace. For completing 50M, yeah, that's pretty slow, probably means frequent breaks. But don't be scared to go that slow, even though everyone else is running easy, and a lot faster. They'll be sorry later. You're not giving anything up; there will be plenty of time left to speed up if you *really* went too slow and are good for more miles. So yeah, I'm saying it is possible to run even splits, even in a 12-hour. If you run smart, you won't slow down.

                 

                Having never run any distance longer than a marathon, if I were doing one, I'd try my best to take this advice to heart.  Especially the 'be firm with yourself that you will go out on goal pace" part.  Any tips on how the OP, or anyone who's never done one, would even begin to estimate his/her goal pace?


                I'm back!

                  Well, 50M in 12:00 = 14:24 pace.


                  Joggaholic

                    Given a 2 mile loop logistically it will be easier for me to rest (or eat/walk/stretch) every 20 minutes or so, or even every 10 minutes, than to maintain a very very slow pace.


                    I'm back!

                      Yeah. No sense running slower than is efficient. So run/walk, or take breaks.

                         

                        Having never run any distance longer than a marathon, if I were doing one, I'd try my best to take this advice to heart.  Especially the 'be firm with yourself that you will go out on goal pace" part.  Any tips on how the OP, or anyone who's never done one, would even begin to estimate his/her goal pace?

                         

                        There are a lot of factors that go into estimating goal pace.  Fitness/training are pretty important, especially when dealing with hilly/technical trail races.  In general if I am well trained, my goal pace for a 50 miler is about +/- 30 seconds of my long run pace for 20-30 miles on similar terrain.  My last 50 miler it was almost exact, with my last long run of 35 miles at 8:48 pace on the course and my 50 mile race paced ended up being 8:48.

                         

                        In general though I would recommend being a lot more conservative for your first 50+ mile event.  Maybe go for +1 or 2 minutes slower than your long run pace.

                          I am new to running ultras. I want to know if there are some recommended (not bare minimum) experience before even training for one, things that would indicate that I have the required base and/or endurance to start training and doing the race without either one turning out to be complete misery?

                           

                           

                          Training does not need to be complete misery.  Looks like you already have a pretty good base, now you just need to do some ultra specific training.  B2B long runs as Bhearn suggested or do a few 50K training runs.

                           

                          As for the race, running for 12 hours will not be easy.  It may be the hardest thing you have ever done.  If you like that kind of challenge and can keep a positive attitude you will finish and be glad you attempted this.  If you aren't ready for fatigue and can't learn to embrace the pain, then you may be pretty miserable near the end.

                           

                          Timothy Olson's WS100 race report does a great job of capturing the pain and emotion of an ultra.

                          jamezilla


                          Follower of Forrest

                            As BHearn mentioned...no reason not to go for it.  You can step off the course at any time.  Timed events are perfect for trying new distances.  I have not competed in a timed event, but from watching...the key is constant forward motion.  The 14:XX pace necessary to finish 50 isn't fast, but it would not be difficult to spend an hour or more at the rest stop.  11 hours would require a 13:11 pace...you get the idea.

                            6/21 - Manitou's Revenge 54mi

                             

                            A man may never run the same trail twice for it is not the same trail and he is not the same man


                             

                              Well, 50M in 12:00 = 14:24 pace.

                               

                              happyfeet said he could do 50M ... absent that piece of data how would you estimate your goal pace (or about how many miles you could run in 12 hours) in your inaugaural 12 hour race?

                                 

                                There are a lot of factors that go into estimating goal pace.  Fitness/training are pretty important, especially when dealing with hilly/technical trail races.  In general if I am well trained, my goal pace for a 50 miler is about +/- 30 seconds of my long run pace for 20-30 miles on similar terrain.  My last 50 miler it was almost exact, with my last long run of 35 miles at 8:48 pace on the course and my 50 mile race paced ended up being 8:48.

                                 

                                In general though I would recommend being a lot more conservative for your first 50+ mile event.  Maybe go for +1 or 2 minutes slower than your long run pace.

                                 

                                OK.  That's what I was looking for.

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