RunningAHEAD - Topic: Daniel's VDOT spot on reps

jsobo119

posted: 6/16/2008 at 9:35 AM

ok I did my first track workout today using daniels vdot values from my marathon. I wasn't sure how I was going to do .. So today called for 5 (2x200 with 200 recovery, + 400 with 400 recovery) I hadn't run on a track in a long time and was totaly unsure how fast I had to run to hit the 200 target time. I ran the first one in control but quick... I hit the 200 line looked at my watch and was about 6 seconds fast... but hit the next one right on... and the rest of the workout was a few seconds quick on the first 200 perfect or +- 2 seconds on the second one and then was about 6 seconds quick on all my 400's... the point thought is that I was totally amazed at how perfect those paces were. They were quick but the pace pretty good... reps 1&2 I was thinking this is too easy... rep 3 I was thinking the pace was ok rep 4 & 5 I had to concentrate on the final 400 to not let my pace drop. BUT never was I soo spent that I couldn't fall into an easy pace at the end of my rep... I wasn't gasping for air... -- I am not sure why I am so suprised that his values are so spot on but I am!

Jim2

posted: 6/16/2008 at 10:07 AM

Two comments: (1) VO2max intervals should not leave you "gasping for air". Yes, the last one's should be hard work. But you should still be able to "flow smoothly" without having to make them an allout sprint effort. Ideally, you should finish feeling as if you could have run 1-2 more without having to slow pace. (2) Although any race distance can theoretically be used to determine training paces, a marathon performance isn't the best for VO2max and LT paces. Most people "perform better" at shorter 5-10k distances than they do in a marathon. Siad another way, marathon performances often to not reach the goal projections of shorter race distances. Running a short (5-10k) race periodically (once a month is good) is a good way to keep training paces up to date with fitness gains and seasonal weather changes.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 6/16/2008 at 10:55 AM

Nitpicky here, but Daniels distinghushes between Intervals (done at I-pace) and Reps (done at R-Pace). Which were you doing? I-pace is for VO2 max, and R-pace are faster, shorter runs with long recover with the purpose of working on mechanics. This sounded like a Rep workout as opposed to a VO2max I-pace workout. Agree with Jim2's statement about using shorter races to set your VDOT.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

jsobo119

posted: 6/16/2008 at 2:30 PM

I used the R pace as I was doing a R workout... my best race perforance in terms of vdot was my 1:10:00 15k my marathon time was 3:38:48 which is vdot 42.4 My 15k 1:10:00 is a vdot 44.7 I also had a 5 mile race Which according to daniels puts me at... 42.4 = 50/1:41 44.7 = 48/1:36 My session went 200 200 400 ---------------------- 45 | 49 | 1:41 ---------------------- 47 | 50 | 1:42 ---------------------- 46 | 51 | 1:40 ---------------------- 45 | 50 | 1:39 ---------------------- 44 | 49 | 1:38 ---------------------- I totally agree that a marathon probably isn't the best race to set my vdot... but I haven't had a "race" at a shorter distance in a while... I had about 2-3 minutes of rest after each rep... and ran at my easy pace for recovery 200's and 400's...

Marcus L S

The Greatest of All Time

posted: 6/16/2008 at 2:55 PM

Since you're embarking into full Daniels land, I would go race a 10k sometime in the next month and compare Vdots. If you're using Daniels for marathon training, I think a HM is an ideal distance to establish Vdot, but you could just do a 10k and compare it with your recent marathon time. It's possible the Vdot from each race might be two or three off from each other. Remember, just use Daniels' methodology as a guide and not as a concrete must do it traning plan. The true hallmark of a good training plan is its flexibility. Don't focus too much on minutia.

all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

Jim2

posted: 6/16/2008 at 4:33 PM

Quote from Marcus L S on 6/16/2008 at 2:55 PM:

Remember, just use Daniels' methodology as a guide and not as a concrete must do it traning plan. The true hallmark of a good training plan is its flexibility. Don't focus too much on minutia.

Amen!! That's true of whosever training pace guidelines you use. They get you in the ballpark, but adjustments can and should be made for daily variations in training conditions (weather, terrain, rest, diet, stress in your personal life, etc.) as well as longer term variables such as fitness gains. One reason I like McMillan's calculator for training paces is that he provides pace ranges within which to work, instead of discrete, specific paces. Daniels' paces fall within McMillan's ranges.

Lofcaudio

El Presidente

posted: 6/16/2008 at 4:50 PM

Quote from Marcus L S on 6/16/2008 at 2:55 PM:

Remember, just use Daniels' methodology as a guide and not as a concrete must do it traning plan. The true hallmark of a good training plan is its flexibility. Don't focus too much on minutia.

Well that's the beauty of Daniels' schedules--they are very flexible with weekly mileage completely up to the runner, sprinkled with quality workouts (which I think are great at building confidence and tuning-up the engine).

"I train conservatively so that I can race recklessly."

MichiganFlyer

posted: 6/17/2008 at 2:39 PM

Thats interesting that you ran 5 X 400. I took Daniels to mean that I was to run 10 X 200 and 1 X 400 when I was done running the sets of 200 meters LOL. I thought my workout was pretty easy LOL. That was back on March 10th that I did my 1st rep stuff. 3 months later I am about a minute faster on my 5k time (21 minute down to 20 minute pace). Good luck with the tempo run if you are doing that one. My Vdot was around 50 so I was aiming for 7:00 per 1600 meters. I did 4 X 1600 meter in 6:59, 6:59, 6:57 and 6:49. It sounded hard but as I got to the last one I was really feeling good about being able to do this pace.

Daniel's VDOT spot on reps (Read 554 times)