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Why run by feel? (Read 1311 times)


Old, Slow, Happy

    I always run by feel. My problem is that I always feel like running long slow distance. I gradually get a little faster in races but I think I should be using a program if I want to run my best. So.....I think running by feel makes me happy, but using an appropriate program would make me a better runner. I guess I don't want to be a better runner yet. Conclusions: Running by feel makes me happy, but I need a program to get better. And...Running by feel is a personnal choice. It's not for everyone.
    mikeymike


      Running by feel does not necessarily mean not having a program. I run by feel. But I have a plan. mta: Another way to describe this is running by effort. In fact I like that better, especially when we start talking about races. Running by feel, or by effort, does not mean getting up the morning and doing only what you feel like. It means, primarily, learing through repetition what "easy" and "tempo" and "5K race pace" and "marathon pace" feels like for you. It means understanding the level of effort you can sustain for the distance or time you're going. It means being able to adjust in real time based on what you've got in the tank thad day, versus trying to do what the HRM or GPS says you should do. It means planning workouts based on what your body needs next based on where you are in your progression, versus mindlessly following a one-size-fits-all schedule from the back of a book with no importance given to the primary experience that Jeff described in his original post. It's okay to follow a schedule, just not mindlessly. There are loads of good training manuals out there and I think many newer runners and veterans alike can learn a great deal from folks like Daniels and Pfitzinger. But read the book, don't just skip to the schedules and charts in the back. And remember the schedules and charts are just an example.

      Runners run

      obsessor


        I've never tried running by feel. I used to run by taste, but that didn't work out well. I always have a taste for spicy food so I kept running toward chili parlors. That, of course, led to running by smell. Running away from a smell, to be precise. But sometimes it would follow me so I would have to run faster to get away. Then I would have to slow down because my stomach was making weird noises. Then I'd have to run faster again. This is how I discovered interval training.
        OK, I admit, I appreciate this post.
        obsessor


          Running by feel is something of a dogma in this community. This post is intended to articulate some reasons why running by feel is a better approach to training than basing a training program off of concepts like LT, VO2max, or even pace and heart rate. First, what is "running by feel?" I think there are three related features to this approach to training: 1. "Primary experience" is privileged over "secondary experience." What does this mean? It means that when there is a conflict between the immediate experience of running and the reflective experience of thinking about running, the immediate experience is given priority. For example, I might decide after reflecting on my running that what's best for me to do tomorrow is to 8 x 800 at 10k pace. I head to the track and try the first one at 10k pace and struggle to make it. The immediate experience is telling me that this pace is too fast. Instead of clinging to the idea that I have to run 10k pace, I back off and listen to the primary experience of the workout. The reverse is sometimes, also, fortunately true. We can have good days and beat our expectations. For running by feel, the "problem" of training is always to bring the secondary experience of reflecting about running in line with the primary experience of running. A physiological approach reverses this direction. 2. Running by feel is radically experimental. This is the sense in which running by feel is more scientific than physiological science. Physiology can only deal with the human species as a whole. Training requires a more radically experimental method because each runner is a singular individual. What works best for me, today, most likely won't work best for you--and might not even work well for me tomorrow. The runner must be willing to try new paces, new intervals, and new intensities on a daily basis. In order to measure the effects of this radical, ongoing experimentation, the runner needs an instrument that is as singular as his or her running. This instrument is "feel," and it is built up over time through experience with the multitude of possible sensations that running brings. Training is an experiment of one and needs an instrument that is adapted to that singularity. 3. Running by feel is comfortable with uncertainty. The great attraction of physiological science is that it pretends to certainty. Everyone has a clearly defined and measurable VO2max. Easy running means keeping your heart rate at exactly 140. Tempo runs should be 20 minutes at 10k pace because that leads to the greatest gains in LT. However, because running is an experiment of one--and that one is constantly changing, sometimes developing, sometimes not--there is no certainty to be found in running, and for this reason any training methodology that pretends to certainty is a bad methodology. Paradoxically, running by feel more precisely measures progress in running because it is vaguer. What does an easy run feel like? How much should a 5k hurt? No one can tell you; it can't be done perfectly. But sometimes, by chance, we capture glimpses of how it feels when it's damn close to being right. We hold onto those glimpses and use them hopefully and uncertainly to guide our training. Running by feel respects the mystery and risk of running by not demanding that it conform to the demands of certainty.
          Just to post it again. Great post, Jeff. The only thing I'll add is that your ultimate feedback instrument - your mind - is involved making an incredibly complex calculation that determines your pace for the day. You can be as complex as you want, have a nicely laid out schedule, and your schedule says tempo - say 6 miles at 5:40, or whatever, and you just run it, not looking at the watch. You know through experience just how this feels. And so that stuff between your ears takes and manages the humidity, temperature, your hangover, an approaching cold, a lighter weight, a tight left hamstring, legs that are tired, lack of sleep, your irate boss and worries about your bills and rolls them all together into a pace that (if you are experienced) is exactly the pace you should be running that day. Maybe it's 5:33, maybe it's 5:52. Maybe your impending cold is a fairly bad one, but you have little inkling of it yet in your primary consciousness. Learning to deal with those things which affect our running pace - and not relegating the task to a stupid and simple machine - or a stupid and non-responsive schedule made by some dude who knows nothing about you - learning to deal with that in your primary consciousness is tuning your brain into the experience and making you a stronger running. Of course, most days I feel like sleeping in and slacking off. But that's not what we're talking about here.


          Why is it sideways?

            Thanks for the comments. I guess the main point I was trying to drive at in my original post was that running by feel is not opposed to running intelligently. Running by feel or effort is not a matter of "anything goes"; it has strict and simple principles to which it adheres. I hoped to lay out some of what I think those principles are so that they can be discussed, refined, improved and even refuted. One further "philosophical" point. Too often, I believe, we make the relationship between thinking and feeling or between knowing and doing into a rigid opposition, usually elevating thinking and knowing into a position of authority and making feeling and doing serve it. But knowledge needs practice; it is idle speculation if it is never implemented. And practice is blind without reflection. They are equal partners in life. Reflection is essential to running well, but unless the theories we invent about running stem from and return to the singular, immediate, and direct experience of running, they lose the grounding in lived experience that is the hallmark of all free action. I don't know about you, but I find that my life is overrun with the theory/practice split. It's mostly blind action and idle speculation. Running is one of the few activities where I am able to effectively bring these things together and produce a few sparks of dignity and autonomy. That's why I fight the concept-mongers who try to dazzle me with their technical vocabularies, their number games, and their pace charts. It's my running, my body. Go back to your dingy lab, your invisible thresholds, and your wires and contraptions. I'm the expert this time around. /off philosophical high horse ----- Disclaimer: I'm the expert, sure. But whatever expertise I've gathered has come from reading, listening, and running with and against other runners and even some physiologists. Some of you message board goons out there are pretty smart, too. Just don't monger the dadgum concepts, okay. Tell me how they'll make me faster. Relate them to practice.
              There's a place for numbers and a place for "feel", imo. Actually, the more practice you have at hitting the numbers the easier it is do them by feel. To each his own, but I find that going to the track and peeling off 1000's or 1600's based on current race times to be very beneficial. This means trying to hit precise numbers. It's too easy for competittive types to justify that they "feel" better than they actually do and run everything too hard. Easy days and races are a different story. On easy days I stick with what feels easy the great majority of the time. In races it is strictly by feel in the early stages, and in the second half it is racing. I find that those sessions on the track help to run a pace that's not too hard and not too easy during a race without having to think about it.
              Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                But read the book, don't just skip to the schedules and charts in the back. And remember the schedules and charts are just an example.
                This is an intelligent statement. If you don't understand what underlies the schedules and charts, including the physiological science, you cannot make the small corrections necessary to train optimally.
                You can be as complex as you want, have a nicely laid out schedule, and your schedule says tempo - say 6 miles at 5:40, or whatever, and you just run it, not looking at the watch....maybe it's 5:52
                Running 6 miles at 5:40 when your body doesn't feel like it can run 6 miles at 5:40 is the difference between achieving and over-achieving. Sometimes putting your faith in the hands of a benevolent outside mentor -- in this case, a schedule -- can lead you to places you not have otherwise ventured.

                How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2.

                Scout7


                  Running 6 miles at 5:40 when your body doesn't feel like it can run 6 miles at 5:40 is the difference between achieving and over-achieving. Sometimes putting your faith in the hands of a benevolent outside mentor -- in this case, a schedule -- can lead you to places you not have otherwise ventured.
                  It can also lead to overtraining and injury. And that's the fine line we walk, isn't it? The schedule can lead to greatness, or it can lead to heartache. Ultimately, the decision as to when you're pushing too much or too little is up the individual.
                  Mishka-old log


                    I'm not sure how this ties into everything, but my running seems to be in an early part of an experiment. Currently, knowing and doing has the authority over thinking and feeling. Using these (as Jeff stated) overly rigid terms, just for discussion purposes, I'm hoping that the balance can shift more toward the thinking and feeling over time. To put some examples to what I'm saying here: If I ran by thinking and feeling, I'd be going a hell of a lot faster than I am now. However, that is exactly what I was doing since I returned to running 2 years ago. A quick glance my daily graph over that time period looks like a wicked elevation profile instead of a steady progression to larger amounts of mileage. Simply stated, running by feel has gotten me injured 4 times in the last 2 years. I may appear to be saying that running by feel = bad for me, but I would disagree with generalizing on that level. Instead, I'd say that the time has not come for me to appropriately rely on a running by feel approach. This is where "knowing" tells me that faster running (right now), although on some days it may feel easy, is premature with a high likelihood of returning to the sidelines. And it's where "doing" is running slowly, at higher volumes, even on days where holding back feels as if my muscles want to burst out of my legs and fly down the trail alone, leaving the rest of in the dust. I guess the point of my post is that even for one individual, there appear to be points in the progression of training where one standpoint needs to be given the heavier influence. There are times that running by feel will take you down the wrong path. That is my idle speculation. I'm hoping that as this experiment plays out, I'll have an enormous base, strong and capable legs and the ability to let go of the reins once in a while. The question at the end of all this is, how do you know when you've done enough "knowing and doing?"


                    Just Be

                      It can also lead to overtraining and injury. And that's the fine line we walk, isn't it? The schedule can lead to greatness, or it can lead to heartache. Ultimately, the decision as to when you're pushing too much or too little is up the individual.
                      I totally agree with this statement, for whatever that's worth. I think that the primary way the individual can figure out how to walk that line without venturing over into injury land is to run by feel. Numbers are a guide, it's important to use them as such and not let them control the workouts. Even if pace is off for a signle workout - or even a whole week, month, etc... if the goal is constant progression toward faster times over time, the average yearly trend will likely match the goal.
                        It can also lead to overtraining and injury.
                        Pfitzinger says that overtraining is the result of (1) poor planning and (2) failing to heed your body's feedback. Poor planning, to me, means you either picked a schedule too tough for your current fitness level or you picked a poor schedule (e.g., one without sufficient recovery). Failing to heed your body's feedback means, to me, ignoring the objective signs of overtraining, such as HR at a fixed pace, resting HR, weight, sweat rates, appetite, and muscle soreness. For others, failing to heed their body's feedback might mean failing to "run by feel." Many will use both standards. Both are equally valid to an extent, and the best approach will depend on the individual runner. Also, experience will help you avoid both (1) and (2) above. Experience can make you a train better regardless of whether you follow a "simple" or "complex" approach.

                        How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2.


                        Prince of Fatness

                          Also, experience will help you avoid both (1) and (2) above. Experience can make you a train better regardless of whether you follow a "simple" or "complex" approach.
                          Experience both bad and good I might add. I had an over training injury about a year and a half ago. That made me take a step back and reevaluate my training habits. I got into some better habits and this year has been my best ever running. Interesting .... I now feel that I am a better runner now than I would have been had the injury not occurred.

                          Not at it at all. 

                          obsessor


                            Running 6 miles at 5:40 when your body doesn't feel like it can run 6 miles at 5:40 is the difference between achieving and over-achieving. Sometimes putting your faith in the hands of a benevolent outside mentor -- in this case, a schedule -- can lead you to places you not have otherwise ventured.
                            I've been to places I'd not otherwise venture. I've been there. I never "feel like" I can run 6 miles at 5:40. Really, never. But I know I can run 13 miles at that pace (when in shape, not exactly now.) Race results tell me so. So I know 6 miles at 5:40 will be a good effort tempo run for me. In fact when I ran a HM at that pace, in mild rolling hills, my pace has been quite exact, variance of3 sec a mile. I was able to hold the pace because of experience in training. My training times and race times led me to believe that I was capable of running 74:20 for a HM, so i went out at that pace, and held it. I know how to hold a pace because of running on the track, and race experience. I learned how to FEEL. To ride the edge of that knife. I learned how to feel the blade. As opposed to saying, "I just felt like running that fast." I sure as hell did not feel like running that fast. And let me say again, I am intimately aware of the exact feeling that I will get running at that pace. I can't speak beyond about 600m. Almost exactly at 600m. It hurts at 2 miles. I start to panic and I can't hold on. At mile 3 my legs really burn. I mean my quads are on fire. By mile four it subsides and I feel the neverending pounding and my ears ring and I have a vague all-over burning. By mile 5, I have to really, really concentrate to make the pace. It is a struggle, it does not flow. It does not feel good. But I feel it, ya know what I'm sayin', man? Ok, so, today, I can't run exactly that pace for a HM. BUT - and this is very important - I know how it should feel to run at that pace, and when I hit the feeling, I am in the exact right pace. And I mean, within 1 sec. a mile on flat ground - that's about how precise I can get (which is ever so much more precise than an hrm and a gps combined) My actual pace, today, might be around 6:20/mi. That's a guess. Maybe 6:08... that's a better guess. But by knowing the feeling, I will automatically adjust for shoe weight, hills, gravel, dirt, or asphalt, self-weight, fitness, humidity, etc. See the point? In my opinion, precision goes hand in hand with running by feel. I'm with mikey on this.
                            obsessor


                              Pfitzinger says that overtraining is the result of (1) poor planning and (2) failing to heed your body's feedback. Poor planning, to me, means you either picked a schedule too tough for your current fitness level or you picked a poor schedule (e.g., one without sufficient recovery). Failing to heed your body's feedback means, to me, ignoring the objective signs of overtraining, such as HR at a fixed pace, resting HR, weight, sweat rates, appetite, and muscle soreness. For others, failing to heed their body's feedback might mean failing to "run by feel." Many will use both standards. Both are equally valid to an extent, and the best approach will depend on the individual runner. Also, experience will help you avoid both (1) and (2) above. Experience can make you a train better regardless of whether you follow a "simple" or "complex" approach.
                              I like that.
                                Even if pace is off for a signle workout - or even a whole week, month, etc... if the goal is constant progression toward faster times over time, the average yearly trend will likely match the goal.
                                However, if the goal is peak performance in a target race then a runner might be looking to train with a bit more of a precision focus. One "bad" run leading up to a goal race probably isn't going to kill your race potential, but a bad week (let alone a bad month) could easily adversely affect your current training cycle and your performance in the goal race. The so-called "cookie cutter" schedules are there to provide you that kind of precision; they are a tool to help you train consistently and optimally leading up to a specific race on a specific date. Runners don't follow schedules to get better over time; runners follow schedules to peak in a goal race. Whether its C25K, Daniel's gold plan, Higdon's intermediate, or Pfitzinger's 18/55 ... the last day on the schedule is always a race.

                                How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2.

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