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| anti-runners (Read 448 times) |
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 11:13 AM |
I had to drop my kid off at a birthday party which was being held at a local fancy health club. While waiting I took the tour and listened to the sales pitch. While talking to the Member Services lady we talked about past gyms and clubs I have belonged to, and my running. I said how it was really working out for me (unlike gym or martial arts) because you can do it any time and any place, the flexibility has helped me stay with it to where I ran some HM's last year, etc. She said "that's great, but once you turn 45 you'll have to find something else." I laughed and asked why. She said running really messes up your knees. She mentioned "people" who have knee surgery at 45 and can't figure out why - hell-oo - it's because you're running 10 miles a day. Out of politeness I didn't take her on. Now I know her position makes her extremely biased, and she probably has a personal example that "proves" her prejudice. But it bugs me when people present this as if it is known fact (a less informed person might take it as such, coming from a "fitness professional"), and it is the runners who have been duped or are operating under misinformation that it is good for you.
I was reading a self-help website promoting purposeful walking (pedestrianism?) as a means of increasing your daily exercise. All for it, but then there is a clever reference to "without being a slave to the gym, or grinding the cartilage off of your knees running."
A local radio host who was watching the local marathon, which goes right by his residence, goes off on an (annual) diatribe against running, using the "pained expressions" on people's faces when they run as proof that it can't be good, and yet thousands of people put themselves through it in the name of fitness, at the cost of their future knees. |
| ~ my running blog ~ |
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Big Chicken! |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 12:07 PM |
What about people's elbows from lifting the remote too often? 
I am thinking that if more people ran, they'd lose some weight and get in shape, then their knees won't have to support the extra 30, 50, 100+ lbs that causes their knee problems in the first place.
Lifting weights~get strong enough to punch someone really hard but with no run training you can't run away from them fast enough! 
I hate when people use the knees as an excuse. |
Kris C
Running away from the couch one mile at a time! |
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 12:53 PM |
| Quote from urbansix on 2/13/2008 at 11:13 AM: She said "that's great, but once you turn 45 you'll have to find something else." I laughed and asked why. She said running really messes up your knees.
She's probably married to the Kirby vacumn cleaner guy that invaded Bugs house the other day.
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| Nothing rhymes with Winkle |
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| view log Funky Monkey |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 1:32 PM |
| Actually, there is no good scientific evidence that running injures healthy knees. |
| It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys attack. |
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 2:21 PM |
| Quote from Sockoni on 2/13/2008 at 12:53 PM: She's probably married to the Kirby vacumn cleaner guy that invaded Bugs house the other day.
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 3:06 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 2/13/2008 at 1:32 PM: Actually, there is no good scientific evidence that running injures healthy knees.
I totally agree. I work on osteoarthritis, and there are quite a few papers out there that have looked at OA occurrence in marathon runners versus non-runners, and there is no increased prevalence of OA in the runners. Yes, lifestyle can be related to increased likelihood of getting OA, but this is more often seen in people who do a lot of kneeling/bending (ie farmers knee, tilers etc). Losing weight and/or having a low BMI is not only far better for your cartilage in your knees and hips, but also it seems that being fat can actually increase hand OA, so being healthy through running also reduces this.
Lots of people do mention grinding away your cartilage by running, and I can see where the idea comes from, and I am sure it is true for some individuals-but generally those that have other risk factors too (whether that be a family history of OA, a job that causes abnormal loading, a previous injury etc). It's also been shown that mechanical loading is actually good for cartilage, and that the loading resulting from running can also reduce chances of osteoporosis by helping increase bone density. |
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| view log Thanks Runner67 |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 3:18 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 2/13/2008 at 1:32 PM: Actually, there is no good scientific evidence that running injures healthy knees.
Like Trent says... no good data |
If Heisenberg was uncertain, why are you so sure?
5K goal 24:00 or less (PR 24:34)
10K goal 50:00 or less (PR 52:45)
HM goal 1:55:00 or less (PR 2:12:00)
Marathon Goal...Victoria Marathon 2008 (PR 4:47:23) |
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| view log Swamp Henchman Chewie |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 3:19 PM |
This knee thang is an awfully popular topic lately. Is there a vast anti-running-cuz-it'll-kill-your-knees conspiracy going on? Do they have cool black helicopters?
In general - and that's the key phrase - running doesn't hurt your knees (or anything else). It's good for you. Good for your knees. There seems to be mountains of evidence of that. And my own knees told me so.
BUT ... the responses to the vast anti-running conspiracy are also a bit knee-jerk. (See what I did there?)
Running, or any high-impact exercise, can obviously cause problems if you're stupid. If you are 100 pounds overweight and start running 40 miles a week, it may hurt your knees. If you run nothing but steep hills all the time, you may hurt your knees (mine are telling me that right at this moment). If you wear the wrong shoes (like, say, combat boots), you may hurt your knees.
It isn't as simple as running is bad for your knees vs. running is great for your knees. If you train right and smart and with the right equipment and with plenty of easy days, its probably great for your knees.
But since there are a LOT of stupid people out there, and some of them run, the vast anti-knee conspiracy (VAKC) does have a point. A lot of runners probably do hurt their knees.
But that's because they're stupid or stubborn or uninformed or reckless. So really it shouldn't be a vast anti-knee conspiracy, but a vast anti-stupid conspiracy.
The moral of the story: don't be stupid, and your knees will be peachy.
And on that note, I'm going to go run some more hills to hurt my knees. Because I was dropped on my head as a child. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
Original Pre-Editing Running-Related Song Lyrics
I would do anything for love
I'd run right into Hell and back.
Because its a flat out and back course.
And my friend BQ'd there.
~~ Meat Loaf |
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 3:55 PM |
| I have a friend who is an ortho surgeon. He's not my ortho, but has offered me some advice in the past. He says its true that there is no research to support that running harms healthy knees... but if you already have knee problems, it can exacerbate the problem. However, if you have knee problems, most of the time you can do some PT and make them better. I have a knee cap tracking issue, and yeah, my knees hurt, but I do the exercises and it doesn't hurt as bad, and I've noticed that as I become a stronger runner, my knees feel better. |
| Michelle |
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| view log Playmaker / nemesis |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:04 PM
modified: 2/13/2008 at 4:04 PM |
| Quote from JakeKnight on 2/13/2008 at 3:19 PM: And on that note, I'm going to go run some more hills to hurt my knees.
This is a completely un-fun suggestion, but doing hill workouts on a treadmill is one way to avoid this, because you don't have to run back down the hill to repeats. Running uphill = easy on the joints. Running downhill = not so much.
Though admittedly, I'd love to see some dub-ass try to run down the hill on a treadmill. I can't even quite visualize how that would look other than the fact that hilarity would ensue.
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20th Century: 800m: 2:04 |1600m: 4:37 |3200m: 10:06 |5k: 16:23 |10k: 35:38 |15k: 54:20 |25k: 1:35:59
21st Century: 5k: 19:42 |10k: 43:00
globule@getm.com |
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posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:05 PM |
| Quote from JakeKnight on 2/13/2008 at 3:19 PM: This knee thang is an awfully popular topic lately. Is there a vast anti-running-cuz-it'll-kill-your-knees conspiracy going on? Do they have cool black helicopters?
But since there are a LOT of stupid people out there,
just don't let the stupid people fly the helicopters
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| As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time! |
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| view log Swamp Henchman Chewie |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:08 PM |
| Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 2/13/2008 at 4:04 PM: This is a completely un-fun suggestion, but doing hill workouts on a treadmill is one way to avoid this, because you don't have to run back down the hill to repeats. Running uphill = easy on the joints. Running downhill = not so much.
Though admittedly, I'd love to see some dub-ass try to run down the hill on a treadmill. I can't even quite visualize how that would look other than the fact that hilarity would ensue.
I'm not running hills. I'm running in the park. It's pretty, there's deer and monkeys, and snow on the ground.
But its full of hills.
I don't want the hills. But that's where the park is.
You see my dilemma, right? |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
Original Pre-Editing Running-Related Song Lyrics
I would do anything for love
I'd run right into Hell and back.
Because its a flat out and back course.
And my friend BQ'd there.
~~ Meat Loaf |
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| view log Swamp Henchman Chewie |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:09 PM |
| Quote from cjregan on 2/13/2008 at 4:05 PM: just don't let the stupid people fly the helicopters
Ha! |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
----------------
"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
Original Pre-Editing Running-Related Song Lyrics
I would do anything for love
I'd run right into Hell and back.
Because its a flat out and back course.
And my friend BQ'd there.
~~ Meat Loaf |
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| view log Funky Monkey |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:13 PM |
| Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 2/13/2008 at 4:04 PM: Running uphill = easy on the joints. Running downhill = not so much.
I disagree.
Running downhill IS high impact relative to running uphill. But most of the impact is realized in your low back and quadriceps. Unless you use proper downhill running form (i.e., lean forward, don't overstride). But running downhill is not bad for your knee joints per se. |
| It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys attack. |
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| view log Playmaker / nemesis |
posted: 2/13/2008 at 4:25 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 2/13/2008 at 4:13 PM: Running downhill IS high impact relative to running uphill. But most of the impact is realized in your low back and quadriceps. Unless you use proper downhill running form (i.e., lean forward, don't overstride). But running downhill is not bad for your knee joints per se.
True, but hill repeats on a treadmill are less net overall impact. I agree with you completely on the downhill form issue, but I find it hard to do in the case of hill reps because I'm trying to recover from the hard uphill -- proper downhill form has me going faster than I want to go for recovery, and I inevitably find myself "putting the brakes on" and pounding.
But this thread isn't really about hill repeats. It's about black helicopters being flown by stupid anti-knee idiots, and a goofy looking gorilla running through the park. |
20th Century: 800m: 2:04 |1600m: 4:37 |3200m: 10:06 |5k: 16:23 |10k: 35:38 |15k: 54:20 |25k: 1:35:59
21st Century: 5k: 19:42 |10k: 43:00
globule@getm.com |
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