Why the Kenyans are so fast (Read 693 times)

bhearn


    His radical idea is that people should walk or run inline

     

    So I may regret actually dipping into the "content" in this thread, but... isn't that the opposite of what the NY Times link he posted suggests? If you run inline, won't your "crossover angle" be too high? Difficult for me to tell with the missing figures.

     

    If you drop a line through the center of their hips (midline) and one through the center of the weight-bearing leg in order to measure their cross-over (i.e., how much their leg crosses over toward the midline), you can see that Hussein crosses over only 3 degrees. This is actually quite a bit for him, his cross-over is usually 1 1/2 degrees.

     

    Petersen, on the other hand, crosses over 10 degrees. He crosses over not only toward his midline, but well beyond it.

     

     

    The takeaway from the NY Times article is that to run much more efficiently, you need to stretch your shoulders for several minutes before running. OK.

    zonykel


       

      Any elite level biomechanics lab can do the measurements for you. What they can't do is teach you how to reduce your individual figure eight measurements.

       

      If you haven't measured it, then I'm skeptical of your claim. You'd have to have a measurement (actually, many) before and after in order to claim an improvement.

          there is never going to be any resolution.  He will continue to contradict himself, to make no sense, and to be elusive and evasive about these brilliant explanations he supposedly has.

         

        I knew you'd get there eventually. I gotta admit, though, for a seemingly bright guy, it sure took you a while. You just needed to be sure?

        Runners run

        GC100k


           

          I knew you'd get there eventually. I gotta admit, though, for a seemingly bright guy, it sure took you a while. You just needed to be sure?

           

          I got there awhile ago. I'm just doing it for fun now.

            Yikes. What else do you do for fun?

            Runners run

            sport jester


            Biomimeticist

               

              If you run inline, won't your "crossover angle" be too high?

               

              I use the article to reference the biology that for any marathon racing individual, a 26.2 mile race is impossible to achieve. It also validates that I'm not the only one measuring what I refer to as your map to reality distance ratio. The only question need asked is how much further you travel during the course of any distance race.

               

              Because in addition to your natural physical displacement levels to run, most of you are at the back of the race and having to weave through the crowd as you progress. That as well increases the distance you have to run before you get to the finish line.

               

              As to the author's explanation of "cross over angle", its pure junk science at its best. His answer is garbage.

               

              The science behind what I write is simple; that the wider anyone steps from centerline, the less efficient they run. So therefore eliminating step width, would require minimum running effort. Only we as shoe wearing athletes run with a parallel leg swing naturally, not inline. That's the biomechanic conundrum faced.

               

              You have a natural running gait step width, and for you to run closer to centerline will increase your energy cost to run, not decrease it.

               

              That is why I study the animal biomechanic connection. All high speed running animals run inline naturally, how they do it, and if that technique could be mimicked was my research question. Because for most runners, inline running would increase, not decrease running efficiency as many note here.

               

              That's what the fossil records of Mungo Park clearly show, that early humans ran inline as well, and were faster than Usain Bolt. They also ran with a heel strike running technique, not a midfoot or forefoot landing.

               

              Its the balance skills necessary to run inline which goes beyond what most runners comprehend and the masking tape exercise teaches.

               

              I'm not going round and round in circles, I would state you're trying to create any fictitious argument you can to keep from trying it yourself.

               

              Because that's the discussion I'm waiting to have, an open exchange with anyone here having the guts to try it for themselves. Because if you were to break your comfort zone and learn a very different means to run, you'd be agreeing with me easily that running inline is a very fast way to run.

              Experts said the world is flat

              Experts said that man would never fly

              Experts said we'd never go to the moon

               

              Name me one of those "experts"...

               

              History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong

              npaden


                Maybe if Ostriches didn't run inline they would be able to run 20% faster!

                Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                npaden


                  Heh - this was the targeted display ad when I posted that reply.

                   

                  Biomechanical Analysis

                   

                  http://www.brconline.com/services/?gclid=CISqudrz_boCFcFj7AodOBUA2A

                  Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                  sport jester


                  Biomimeticist

                    Maybe if Ostriches didn't run inline they would be able to run 20% faster!

                    And I'm accused of insulting people....

                    Experts said the world is flat

                    Experts said that man would never fly

                    Experts said we'd never go to the moon

                     

                    Name me one of those "experts"...

                     

                    History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong

                    npaden


                      And I'm accused of insulting people....

                       

                      Why is that insulting?  Seems a perfectly plausible theory to me.  Maybe you can work on training them to run like we do and see if they can improve their efficiency.

                      Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                      sport jester


                      Biomimeticist

                        what better proof of internet idiot do I need..

                        Experts said the world is flat

                        Experts said that man would never fly

                        Experts said we'd never go to the moon

                         

                        Name me one of those "experts"...

                         

                        History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong

                        npaden


                          what better proof of internet idiot do I need..

                           

                          Exactly.  Anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.  

                           

                          I wasn't even disagreeing with you, I just threw out the possibility that it might be possible that ostriches could run faster if they mimicked us instead if the other way around, but you completely dismissed it on principle.  Yet you expect everyone here to blindly accept that we would be faster is we all ran like ostriches.

                          Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                          sport jester


                          Biomimeticist

                             

                            Exactly.  Anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.  

                            Given the ostrich is a direct genetic descendent of T-Rex, millions of years of evolution and fossil track record prove an inline running form is the fastest way to run.

                             

                            Show me one scientific study which proves otherwise. If increasing step width is a faster way to run, then show me the study proving it. That's my proof of internet idiot.

                             

                            I've got Navy SEALs, a list of private clients, and an entire football team that document I'm right....

                             

                            Better yet, try the masking tape exercise for yourself and tell me why I'm wrong if you want any sense of legitimate training debate.

                            Experts said the world is flat

                            Experts said that man would never fly

                            Experts said we'd never go to the moon

                             

                            Name me one of those "experts"...

                             

                            History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong

                              The hypothesis has been implied in this thread that the Kenyans run faster than non-Kenyans in the marathon because they run more inline.

                               

                              1. Are the Kenyans faster? Or is it just specific runners who are fast?

                               

                              2. Do the faster runners in fact have a more inline stride?

                               

                              3. If they have a more inline stride, do they have a genetic predisposition toward being more efficient with such a stride?

                               

                              We are not even sure of #2 yet. Although it is possible the top runners in the marathon are slim hipped, and might have a more inline stride. But even if so, that wouldn't mean others would become faster by making their own stride more inline. It is possible that becoming too inline would be less efficient, and slower, for running. Efficient stride would likely vary by body type.

                               

                              Non of the assertions regarding Kenyan women basket carrying efficiency rates, Navy Seal training techniques, nor Nike shoe lab involvement are taken as a given. But nonetheless, the hypothesis of inline running being a key factor in marathon top times is interesting, and can be tested to see if there is an association.
                              Turbolegs


                                Also, there is a trade-off between minimizing "extra" movement and speed .. if i wanted to reduce my vertical displacement for each stride, i would have to very nearly drag my feet just above the ground. Theoretically, my vertical displacement then would tend to 0 but my speed would tend towards that of the Galpagos turtle.

                                 

                                I do believe i have been suckered into spending more time on this thread than necessary .....

                                I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.