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Running Cadence Debate... Ready, set, go! (Read 1037 times)

    I understand that increasing your cadence a little can help you hold better form, but is 180 some magical number for cadence?

     

    I say no.  I'm taller than the average runner, so wouldn't my cadence be a little less than someone who is shorter, but runs the same times as me?

      Jack Daniels observed that virtually all elite distance runners have a cadence of at least 180. But I tend to think a cadence of 180 is a symptom, not the cause, of being very fast and efficient.

       

      As for being tall, no, that doesn't mean your cadence should necessarily be slower than a shorter runner's.

      Runners run.


      Feeling the growl again

        No matter what your height, the acceleration of gravity is a constant of physics that is not affected.  Therefore, your height has much less meaning to cadence that you may think.  Same reason that the magic 180 number is somewhat unchanged across a wide variety of paces.

         

        And I agree with Mikey, there is a lot more to it than working your way to 180 and expecting magic.  However, knowing that a much slower number is likely sub-optimal may help you pay attention and realize you are over-striding or something, so it's worth thinking about.

         

        MTA:  Re-watch the 1500m Olympic finals.  Pay attention to Leo Manzano vs....well...everyone else in the field, who are significantly taller than him.

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         

           

           

          MTA:  Re-watch the 1500m Olympic finals.  Pay attention to Leo Manzano vs....well...everyone else in the field, who are significantly taller than him.

           

           

          Good point.  

           

          I do have an old video when I did have some good turnover back in college, and I was running next to a few other runners, and it look I took one stride to their three.  Maybe I was overstriding, but I read that 180 was just an "average" and not necessarily the optimal rate.

           

          How would you even go about testing that?  Do people run around to songs at 180 BPM all day to keep their stride rate on point?

            I'll something here. Does height really have anything to do with stride rate/length.

             

            I sometimes hear the "I'm short so I can't run fast" or "he is tall so he has a long stride". I was always under the impression leg length doesn't matter too much as what generates strides length is the force applied to the ground. 

             

            I suppose a taller person can on average apply more force, but at the same time he is likely heavier. 

             

            As far as the 180 goes, that honestly seems to generally be low for when I pay attention to elites at race pace 190-200 seems much more common. Guy like Bekele, or god forbid Tadesse, have really quick stride rates and the longest (ergo lowest cadence) stride that comes to mind for me is Lawi, who seemed to be righ around high 170/low 180. 

            They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

              Is this just during races or all the time? 

              Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                Is this just during races or all the time? 

                 

                W/ Daniels', his observation as stated in his book, that 180 cadence was nearly all the time (from warm ups to race pace).


                Craig

                  Here is an interesting article (that includes links to a previous article by the same author).  It illustrates that stride rate does typically increase as pace increases, especially for sprinting.  However, stride length typically increases by a greater factor than the increase in stride rate - unless you are Bekele.

                    Good article!

                     

                    I asked the question because I actually counted my stride rate last night running on the treadmill on an easy run.  That's a 10:00 pace for me and my stride rate was right at 160.  That's the only time I've ever counted my stride rate (it was real easy with the timer right there on the console to use and I was bored) so no idea what my stride rate is when I'm running an interval or running fast for me anyway.

                     

                    I'll have to bump the speed up on the treadmill sometime and count strides when I'm running faster and see what it is.

                    Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27


                    Feeling the growl again

                      Here is an interesting article (that includes links to a previous article by the same author).  It illustrates that stride rate does typically increase as pace increases, especially for sprinting.  However, stride length typically increases by a greater factor than the increase in stride rate - unless you are Bekele.

                       

                       

                      Good article.  There is a line in there toward the end that echoed my prior post, essentially the key is not to hit 180 but to eliminate over-striding (which newer and/or slower runners have a tendency to do).

                       

                      It also emphasizes range.  180 IS just a number, and there is variation around that.  But when they are talking rates of 195-215 steps per minute, make sure you understand the speed at which those athletes are moving (in the article, typically faster than 5min/mile). 

                       

                      Are you running that fast?  No?  Then your rate will likely be closer to 180 (not necessarily at 180).  But if it is 160 you should wonder if you may be over-striding.

                       

                      One reason height doesn't matter is, as I said, gravity.  Vertical motion when running, beyond the minimum necessary, represents inefficiency.  How much vertical displacement you have will be a function of stride rate and how fast you are moving...it has less to do with how tall you are.  If you use too low of a stride rate you will need more "hang time", requiring greater vertical displacement, to get to your next footfall.  So you will be less efficient and have a tendency to over-stride as a result (perhaps more heel striking).  Now, if you are Bekele, perhaps as high speeds you are already operating near max stride length (which is somewhat determined by leg length) and the only way you have to accelerate is to increase turnover.  Maybe some of your taller competitors can still match you mainly by increasing stride length.  I don't know the data on that but it makes sense.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                        My dachshund's cadence is much higher than mine.

                        Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                        just a simple cat

                          My dachshund's cadence is much higher than mine.

                           Are you counting all four legs?

                           

                          I  guess as you get more bodacious, you begin to lose more brain cells, because there is a limit to how much magnificence your body can house

                            My dachshund's cadence is much higher than mine.

                             

                            doh... repeated joke...

                               Are you counting all four legs?

                               

                              Am I supposed to?  I count both of my legs, and doggy's not running on just his hind feet.  In any case, I've tried, and it's too fast for me to count.

                              Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                                doh... repeated joke...

                                 

                                May have been repeated by me, but I thought it pertinent since height was being discussed in this thread.  Wink

                                Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

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