RunningAHEAD - Topic: Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (page 106)

JimHowe

posted: 4/28/2009 at 9:32 AM
modified: 4/28/2009 at 9:32 AM

Quote from hubbardsw on 4/27/2009 at 11:33 PM:

I have a question for the experienced...I will be making my second attempt at sub 3 at the Marine Corps Marathon in Oct. My first mararthon was a mess at 3:12:00 but I was injuried. This time around I have been really trying to lay down a good base and do some speed work besides just tempo runs. I am already up to 60-75 miles a week for the last month. Is there such a thing as to much of a base. Would have this mileage so far out make me peak to soon. I just ran a 10K last week to test the legs and finished in 37:24. Not to bad of a way to mark my first year of running.

I don't think you can have too much base as long as you are handling it. However, I would echo what's already been said about peaking too soon. What I wanted to add was to remind you that not only were you injured, but that 3:12 was at Honolulu, one of the slowest, toughest marathons anywhere. I would bet that you can go sub-3 right now on course like MCM. Nothing wrong with waiting a few months, though. Providing you can avoid those pesky injuries there is good chance you could break 3 by several minutes.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

ChakaKahn

Are we there yet?

posted: 4/28/2009 at 10:16 AM
modified: 4/28/2009 at 10:17 AM

Quote from JimHowe on 4/27/2009 at 11:52 PM:

Hey, was that a quick decision to run Buffalo or had you been thinking about it?

It was an impulsive decision triggered by the fact that I discovered a running forum to answer all these burning questions that were once mysteries. Also it gave me two months between marathons which felt better than the one month I had previosly given myself to recover/prepare. ( I need a lesson in this quote feature) Jim - what do u recommend as a solid goal split time.. first half?

JimHowe

posted: 4/28/2009 at 11:09 AM
modified: 4/29/2009 at 9:36 AM

Chaka, I recommend shooting for 1:30 half. On a normal course the evidence is overwhelming that something close to even or slightly negative splits is the way to go. If the pace feels "about right" in the early going you are almost surely going too fast.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

OnceADCV

posted: 4/28/2009 at 11:10 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 4/28/2009 at 8:52 AM:

The first time I thought I could run sub 3 was 2002 Boston, I ran 3:01:13. I was running 50-70 mpw leading up to it, ran a HM of 1:21:52 in March. I was doing 1-2 workouts a week, pretty standard stuff--30 minute tempos, some intervals etc. The first time I actually did run sub 3 was 6 months later at Bay State, when I ran 2:57+. Coming so close at Boston helped me focus and be more consistent--ran 60-70 mpw all summer leading up to it, had a longest run of 23 miles, I raced pretty often and even brought my 5k PR down to 17:17 that July. That was the one time I pretty closely followed a cookie cutter plan--the 70 mpw marathon plan straight out of Pfitzinger and Douglas' Road Racing for Serious Runners. I think I'm blessed with more speed that Dopple Bock but I don't have good natural endurance--that is always my weakness. The last few years I've focussed almost exclusively on the marathon and run pretty decent mileage for a hobby jogger and yet my marathon times, while coming a lot more in line with my other races, are still weak compared to most of my shorter PR's. I probably would have made a fairly useful 1500m runner at one point in my life. I'm experimenting with going back to the 5k for the first half of this summer, partly because I want to and partly to see if I can't move the whole line down from this current base of fitness that I've got...the results of this experiment won't be out until probably October though. If I can't get my marathon time in line with my 5k-HM times, then maybe the answer is to move my 5k-HM times down. In the back of my mind, 2:45 is the goal for fall of this year.

Is your October marathon BayState?

mikeymike

posted: 4/28/2009 at 11:41 AM

Quote from OnceADCV on 4/28/2009 at 11:10 AM:

Is your October marathon BayState?

Probably. Not very imaginative, I know, but it is the easiest choice--local, cheap, a fast course I know well and lots of good runners to work with.

Runners run

flovesparko

posted: 4/28/2009 at 2:21 PM

Quote from JimHowe on 4/28/2009 at 11:09 AM:

Chaka, I recommend shooting for 1:30 half. On a normal course the evidence is overwhelming that something close to even or slightly negative splits is the way to go. If the pace feels "about right" in the early going you are almost surely going to fast.

Hey Jim, so are you saying that it should feel slow? When should it feel "about right"? When should it get difficult? thanks

DoppleBock

posted: 4/28/2009 at 2:50 PM

lansyd - 05/02/09 Rotora Marathon, NZ v02maxed - 05/02/09 Rotorua Marathon, NZ Outee - 05/04/09 Belfast, Belfast, IRE 3 RA'ers in the barrel this weekend (Plus Monday) How are you feeling?

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

DoppleBock

posted: 4/28/2009 at 2:57 PM

Quote from flovesparko on 4/28/2009 at 2:21 PM:

Hey Jim, so are you saying that it should feel slow? When should it feel "about right"? When should it get difficult? thanks

Comfortably hard - Not reaching or straining - 1st 10 miles to 1/2 marathon - Progressively more work from there. If I can make it to 20 miles hurting but not dying - I can bring it home. I have had other marathons that have felt hard from the start - Still not straining, but they have felt like going even 1 sec per mile faster I would be straining - Lots of pain from 20 in to the finish - but solid. When it starts to feel like a 10k race - in the 1st 10 miles - I know I am going too fast and if I do not adjust immediately - I will be struggling home. Everyone is different - so its hard to tell you how it will feel to you.

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

ksrunr

posted: 4/28/2009 at 4:30 PM

Dopple - did I miss your half marathon in the thread? How did you do?

ksrunr All American 10K Feb. '10 Cowtown Half marathon Feb. '10 Boston '10

JimHowe

posted: 4/28/2009 at 5:11 PM
modified: 4/28/2009 at 5:11 PM

Quote from flovesparko on 4/28/2009 at 2:21 PM:

Hey Jim, so are you saying that it should feel slow? When should it feel "about right"? When should it get difficult? thanks

As Dopple Bock said "Everyone is different - so its hard to tell you how it will feel to you. " It really is hard to verbalize, but I wouldn't say slow. A better way for me to put it would have been that you should feel like you are holding back. Someone like D Bock who has a massive base can probably afford to be closer to the edge in the early gone than most folks. I know for myself that I don't trust a pace feeling comfortable until I'm past the half way mark. There are several guys here who have paced some nice ones very recently so maybe they can chip in.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

JimHowe

posted: 4/28/2009 at 5:15 PM

From Dopple Bock's log: 4/25/2009 Run Outside Long 44 Mi 5:46:33 7:53 I don't feel that it's an exaggeration to use the word "amazing" to describe this one. That's a very good race at this distance, but for a training run?

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

bhearn

posted: 4/28/2009 at 5:30 PM

OK, so a bit OT, but just to update you all, after my sub-3 at Boston I ran both CMM (3:31) and Big Sur (3:57) last weekend. CMM was very hot, ~83 when I finished. Big Sur was very hilly and windy. I still felt pretty good at Big Sur, but took it easy and walked several uphills in the 2nd half -- I saw no reason to push it. A big PW, but still a beautiful course and a fun day. As a result I got through all 3 with no cramps, no twinges, no death marches. Legs feel great; I'm running Vancouver this weekend. Maybe 3:20ish; I'll have to see how I feel.

ksrunr

posted: 4/28/2009 at 6:44 PM

Bowing now to bhearn!!

ksrunr All American 10K Feb. '10 Cowtown Half marathon Feb. '10 Boston '10

OnceADCV

posted: 4/28/2009 at 10:04 PM

I think a good marathon is to not feel really any strain until 20 miles... Then you should start to feel it, but not be exhausted... I was surprised how good I felt in Boston. My hamstrings were a little tight around mile 6,7 but no real concern. I was a little tired at the top of HeartBreak Hill and was glad it was over. I felt good after the last hill, not fresh but good. Like I could maintain or pickup pace if I wanted too. The only time I was really tired was at the end sprint to the finish but I was running 6:05 pace then... If you're having a good race, you should feel surprised by how good and fast you are running late in the race... Sleepwalk through the first half basically....

sparky_

posted: 4/28/2009 at 11:58 PM
modified: 4/28/2009 at 11:58 PM

Training update & looking for some advice too from the sub-3hour crowd if you'd be so obliged Smile

Well my planned 10mi calibration race on 04/19/2009 was the best DNS every as my first son was born! Big grin

Unfortunately I had done a taper to that race and had to write a final exam that week, had little sleep due to the new bambino (getting better), and took a hit in the mileage as you can see from my log. I did a 7mi tempo run today at an avg. of 6:17/mi (although this is Garmin time) with the last 3 miles at ~6:10/mi. It felt awesome, but I did have the wind at my back (but as an out and back course I fought the wind the whole way out). This is the fastest I've done a tempo of this distance and was obviously due to my dip in mileage. I've also done 2 MP long runs of 15 and 16 miles at ~6:50/mi, 5 weeks and 2 weeks ago respectively. I've left these runs tired and happy to quit, but feeling like I could have done a bit more distance if I really had to. I regularly try to integrate MP into my long runs in some shape or form, normally for the final 5-10 miles. Anyhow, my goal race is 05/31/09, which leaves 5 weeks of training beginning this Sunday, of which I need to taper in. Does anyone have any input for me regarding how I should proceed given the dip in mileage I had over the last two weeks? Should I try and climb up to the high 70's/low80's again, increase my mileage for 3 more weeks, or keep things steady/lower and do more sharpening, etc.? ...and I'm obviously looking to try and run sub-3 come goal date. Thanks for any input anyone might give! And congratulations to all you recent sub-3 finishers!

Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15845 times)