RunningAHEAD - Topic: Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (page 4)

JakeKnight

posted: 10/10/2008 at 8:54 AM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 8:50 AM:

Engaging in this conversation is one of my torture methods. Look at all the cries of anguish so far. I'm weakening my opposition the same way dames weaken the legs.

Of course. As always, your superior intellect has outmatched my rudimentary brainstem. I'm focused on the details while you're a step ahead. You're a big picture sorta guy. Also, you said dames.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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slosh252

1983

posted: 10/10/2008 at 8:54 AM

delectatio morosa

Favorite quote: Stop your crying you little girl! 2011: Mt Washington, Washington Trails, Peaks Island, Pikes Peak.

Scout7

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:05 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 10/10/2008 at 8:54 AM:

Of course. As always, your superior intellect has outmatched my rudimentary brainstem. I'm focused on the details while you're a step ahead. You're a big picture sorta guy. Also, you said dames.

That's why I'm running for Overlord. I need details people, though. Help implement my genius, both evil and otherwise.

Rich_

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:11 AM

Quote from MrFinn on 10/10/2008 at 8:16 AM:

OK Richard, I'll bite. I'm as average as they come. You're saying for me to run less but harder, build my muscles, power running, etc. I will tell you that it is not the optimal way for me to train. I don't have any scientific facts to back this statement, only real numbers from my running log. I ran the same HM in 2006 and 2008. Same course, weather conditions similar. Here are the results.... Year, total miles run 16 weeks prior to race (not including race week), average pace for those miles, race time 2006, 446,88, 8:07, 1:42:49 2008, 613.86, 9:13, 1:39:51 To summarize, I ran 10 miles a week more leading up to the race, ran a minute per mile slower on average for those miles, and PR'd by 3 minutes. Please explain that to me, Richard. By the way it was one of your threads over at CR that inspired me to run more miles and slow down for most of them. So thanks for that. Like JK I'll probably regret this.

If you've found what works for you, then stick with it and ignore anyone who tells you otherwise (including me). No one knows how you respond to training better than you. If your experience is that more miles at a slower pace works better for you, then I recommend you keep doing that. What I will say is that multiple research studies have shown that easy runs don't add anything really measureable to performance. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to this finding - people aren't all the same so there are always varying results - but it appears to fit the majority.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

Scout7

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:17 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 9:11 AM:

If you've found what works for you, then stick with it and ignore anyone who tells you otherwise (including me). No one knows how you respond to training better than you. If your experience is that more miles at a slower pace works better for you, then I recommend you keep doing that. What I will say is that multiple research studies have shown that easy runs don't add anything really measureable to performance. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to this finding - people aren't all the same so there are always varying results - but it appears to fit the majority.

I'd like to read these studies. Links to them?

JakeKnight

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:18 AM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 9:17 AM:

I'd like to read these studies. Links to them?

Good luck with that.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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Mr Inertia

Suspect Zero

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:19 AM

Quote from obsessor on 10/9/2008 at 5:47 PM:

Training that works. Run a bunch of miles. Run some hills. Run at various paces, various surfaces. Allow yourself adequate recovery. Run sometimes long. Run sometimes very fast. Improvement takes time. if it differs from that too much, it's not right.

I'm Mr Inertia and support this message.

Scout7

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:20 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 10/10/2008 at 9:18 AM:

Good luck with that.

I like to dream big.

JakeKnight

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:20 AM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 9:20 AM:

I like to dream big.

Vote Scout. He dreams big.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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dgb2n

Dave

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:25 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 9:11 AM:

If you've found what works for you, then stick with it and ignore anyone who tells you otherwise (including me).

Done. Especially about the part about ignoring you. Please make it stop, Scout. You're the friggin Overlord. Do something or you're losing support in the masses.

I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

dgb2n@yahoo.com

Rich_

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:38 AM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 9:17 AM:

I'd like to read these studies. Links to them?

IMO, the 2 best studies on the topic are a marathon study by Dolgener et al: Dolgener, F., Kolkhorst, F., Whitsett, D.: Long Slow Distance Training in Novice Marathoners: Res Q Exer Sci; 1994; 65(4); 339-346 and a 2 years study on cross counry skiiers by Gaskill et al. Gaskill, S., Serfass, R., Bacharach, D., Kelly, J., Responses to training in cross-country skiers, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 1999, 31(8), 1211-1217 I would also point you to the classic work of Hickson in the series of studies he conducted comparing the effects of changes in frequency, intensity, duration, specificity, and volume. For those who don't have access to the full text studies, here are my reviews of them: http://powerrunning.com/Training/Does%20increasing%20mileage%20make%20for%20a%20faster%20marathon.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Base%20building%20vs%20High%20intensity.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Easy%20Runs%20and%20Recovery.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/A%20comparison%20of%20the%20five%20training%20elements.htm

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

greenrunning

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:39 AM

Rich, I guess I see your point, however ---

C-R

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:40 AM

So let me try in my small and addled brain to surmise - If Ryan Shay would run less but harder (sepcifically at the 6 magic paces) he would be able to drop Haile like a bad habit since he only runs a ton of miles using the old standard Ethiopian/Kenyan way of training. And to put it in context for us mortals, I could dust my 40-44 age group even though I have never run below a 3:50. I'm with Mr. Spud on run lots, most easy, some fast. If you're aerobic system sucks you can't run worth anything even if you have the worlds strongest muscles. Otherwise Ahnold the Terminator would have held Mr.Olympia title and the gold Medal in the 10000 in 1976. Oh I forgot, he wouldn't have passed the urine test. Well, you get my point. Sorry for feeding this but pretzel logic is just too much.

"He conquers who endures" - Persius
"Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:41 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 9:11 AM:

What I will say is that multiple research studies have shown that easy runs don't add anything really measureable to performance. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to this finding - people aren't all the same so there are always varying results - but it appears to fit the majority.

So Dick, provide us evidence that the majority you claim actually exists. Perhaps we should take a poll here and see where the real majority lies? You've really good at making unsupported ridiculous claims, and this is another good one. The fact is that the "facts" you elude to here are not supported by real-life experiences (and, actually, not by the studies you claim support it). Even if your studies say what you claim they do (which they don't), we who are actually scientists and not just internet trolls who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once and crave attention no matter how sickly masochistic it is have a term for such studies when they cannot be verified in the real world -- TOILET PAPER.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

Happyfeet

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:43 AM

Ok I'll bite too, and probably regret it. I have been running for about 3 years now, and was dead last in my first ever race, so I don't think I have any talent, let alone above average talent. So here is my experience- In 2006 I ran about 500 miles 3 times a week and after most of them felt like I could not run another 30 seconds. I used to do a fair amount of cross training, playing basketball, swimming etc on my non running days. The result, lower 10% in all races I entered and 11:00 min/mile race paces In 2007 I ran about 900 miles about 4 -5 days a week and my race times have been between 9:30 - 10:00 min/mile depending on distance In 2008 so far I have ran about 1100 miles mostly easy with an occasional faster run, and even though have not raced much, I am sure I can run at 8:00 min/mile at a 5K. So I don't care if my aerobic conditioning is better or my muscles are stronger, the more I run and the more frequently I run, the faster I can run.

Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (Read 2197 times)