Forums >General Running>Myth Debunked: Treadmill Just as Good as Road Running
Speaking of horrible treadmill science (posetech)
"Running on the ground we have to release the force of gravity to start and continue the run. Running on the treadmill we have to wait for the belt movement, which also goes in the opposite direction from our body. This is already a big difference: what moves our body and what force is involved? Sure the ground reaction will be the same because the transmitter of gravity to the ground is the same, which is the body weight. But which force is working to change the support or to move the body weight from one leg to the other? In overground run it is gravity, on the treadmill it is the belt, moved by an electric engine. "
not bad for mile 25
<Insert double face palm image here.>
Bad grasp of physics combined with doublespeak.
So apparently, if the ground does not move underneath you when you run outdoors, hopping is your version of outdoor running.
Best to look at a proper study on the subject:
http://img2.timg.co.il/forums/1_162564498.pdf
"Overall, our hypothesis that the kinetics of instrumented treadmill and overground running are similar is not entirely supported. The higher ankle moments and preserved power observed in instrumented treadmill running, however, should put to rest the notion that treadmill running lacks push-off. Preservation of push-off was also observed in our comparison of instrumented treadmill and overground walking
...
Because of the relatively short runway, we could not be certain that overground running parameters were measured at a steady-state condition, whereas near steadystate conditions (T a small amount of drift) were assured for measures on the instrumented treadmill. Trials in which the subject was observed to be accelerating or slowing down were rejected, as were trials with asymmetric braking and propulsive AP GRF data. However, the subjects had been accelerating a stride or two before being analyzed and would be decelerating in a stride or two. Thus, overground data are not a steady state but the apogee of a dynamic trajectory
The fact that half of our subjects ran at the same stride length and cadence as well as speed on the instrumented treadmill indicates that it is biomechanically possible to do so. The fact that half of our subjects ran with a very different stride length and cadence indicates that it is equally possible to adopt a different strategy. Just as people may adopt a different running pattern on a treadmill, so also do they tend to adopt different running patterns when bare foot or in various shoes, when running on a compliant track or on hard pavement, or when running straight or on a curve. In studying the biomechanics of running, the question is not which running pattern is normal; all are normal for their condition. The concerns are: (1) is the condition representative of the overall task? (2) Can the conditions be controlled and reproduced within and between subjects? With a well-designed, built, and maintained instrumented treadmill, the answer to both of these questions is yes."
Break on through
To summarize... “For the average runner, this doesn’t mean much.”'
"Not to touch the Earth, not to see the Sun, nothing left to do but run, run, run..."
This line is fairly significant if you accept its premise.
When you run outdoors, your calf muscles produce about 80 percent of the forward propulsion power but this drops significantly on a treadmill because the ground moves underneath you.
This line is fairly significant if you accept its premise. When you run outdoors, your calf muscles produce about 80 percent of the forward propulsion power but this drops significantly on a treadmill because the ground moves underneath you.
No, it isn't.
And why isn't it significant?
Feeling the growl again
This line is fairly significant if you accept its premise. this drops significantly on a treadmill because the ground moves underneath you.
this drops significantly on a treadmill because the ground moves underneath you.
Yes, if you accept that the physical laws of the universe are suspended, it is very significant indeed.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
No Talent Drips
Respectfully,
if you accept that the physical laws of the universe are suspended, it is very significant indeed.
Bless your heart.
Dei Gratia
President of the Galaxy
The people who think that treadmill running isn't real running are simply thinking on the wrong scale. Because the treadmill belt is small, it is clear that the runner is remaining stationary relative to the rest of her surroundings. But make the treadmill bigger so that you don't have that visual cue, and suddenly there is no difference to running outside. Example: imagine a long train on a straight track and there is a clear shot from the front to the back of the train. The train begins to move forward at 6mph, and a runner begins to run from the front of the train to the back of the train at a 10 min/mile pace. To an outside observer, the runner is stationary relative to the ground - she simply has a long belt moving under her. But the runner no longer has the visual cue of remaining stationary because she is inside the treadmill and can't see the ground.
In what way is the runner on the train different from a runner on a treadmill?
Evolving body parts
Well explained, Zaphod. Like reading a popular science book about space time
This is a very well timed thread having just run my HM PR on a (gasp!) treadmill. Comforting to know that it was really running and not just some weird altered biomechanic phenomenon. Although it's not as shiny as an outdoors HM, but I'll take it
Respectfully, Bless your heart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af-Id_fuXFA
We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.
It's just an assertation by the researcher and not supported. Had he stopped at 'and drops significantly on the treadmill' and left it at that, it would be useful information. Instead it just makes him look rather foolish.
You should look over the study I linked to. It describes the difficulties and limitations associated with acquiring kinetic information from runners. It's actually easier to get it within a treadmill environment than an open surface situation.
Whatever I am doing on the treadmill, I am sweaty and tired when I step off, so I am counting it. And yes, I am still doing it in compression shorts. No one seems to mind and, in the words of Kramer, "My boys need a house."
In other gym news (God, I can't wait for this weather to break) I was sitting in the locker room after my run/not run/unidentifiable treadmill activity last night and was confused by the "click.....click.....click" I was hearing. I regret looking. I discreetly lean around the lockers to see some guy, bare ass naked, clipping his toenails. He left those nasty things on the floor too.
And in the words of Costanza, "Once again, I sat there like a little man." Clipper guy probably pees in the shower too.
Yeah, well...sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Contrary (long-term) study finds that treadmill running offsets lack of cross-training.
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus