2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 226 times)

All the best wcrunner!!

Early dump of the weekly for me. Day off on Sunday since it's Mothers Day and probably advisable to look after the kids and let my wife sleep in rather than disappearing for a long run.

It was a post-race week but kind of a momentous one as I bid farewell to my coach of 8.5 years.  She was very good about it and totally understood where things are at.  I still think it's crazy that when I first met her, my goal was to run a sub-1:24 half in the next year with a long-term goal of sub-1:20 (which I did in less than a year).  If you had told me even half the stuff I'd achieve while she was coaching me, I would never have believed it.  But the truth is that I am in a different place with running now.  Of course I still want to be competitive and push myself, but there's no real lure of PBs any more and the real thrill just comes from running good races, and exploring new events.

So that leaves me with a bit of time to think now about what comes next - other than probably National Road Relays at the end of September, there's nothing in the calendar until the HM series rolls around again from early October.  Even that may take on a lesser focus as I'd quite like to try some more 5k / shorter events and possibly doing some track events next summer might be back on the radar.

And... that's not a bad thing. This morning I went out with no specific plan, and decided to go and run a bunch of hills, just because.  I think it'll be nice to just run for a bit.

Weekly for period: From: 06/05/2024 To 12/05/2024

Totals: Time: 05:43:58 - 🦅Imperial: 49.80 mi - Metric: 80.13 km

Marky_Mark - why the coaching change?  (if you are comfortable discussing here - I understand that you may not)

Fair question, and there were a few factors. I think I'm experienced enough and know my body well enough now to plan my own training - and maybe it'll actually be good for me.  For the most part my coach has taken my overall guidance around workload (i.e. runs per week / time / distance) and structured a program around that anyways so it's not like the macro piece changes, I just need to be the one that figures out the details - and I'm kind of looking forward to the challenge of that.  For the most part I'm sticking to event distances where I'm pretty experienced too, plus the odd crazy trail event just for the adventure of it.  It's pretty different to a few years ago when I was inexperienced and attempting distances I really wasn't that familiar with (especially the marathon).

My coach has been awesome and in no way is it a reflection on her - it was just time for me to do my own thing (after 8.5 years!).

mmerkle - For this cycle my coach has brought in a lot more "steady" type long runs which are generally in zone 3, albeit slightly slower than marathon pace.  These are the runs that are generally accepted to be not recommended (the "dead" zone) but the thinking is that I haven't done a lot of them in previous cycles, and there's something about that zone that I have trouble with.  It remains to be seen how it works.

I think for you, blasting long runs at speed is unlikely to help.  I'd almost go the other way and say do more mileage at slower speeds - get yourself consistently around Keen's mileage.  I'd also say that you're early in your marathon career (like me) and the more you do the better you'll get.  You've definitely got the talent to take some big chunks off that PR.

Mark - Sounds like a fun few months in front of you.  Your coach has taken you to great places but I agree, there's no reason why you can't coach yourself now especially with your outlook on doing events more for fun.  I don't think your PR days are behind you though, depending on what you want in the future.

Good luck wc!  Also, Fishy may need a prod about keeping the races up to date...

My week - This week had more of a focus on the steady runs I mentioned above.  Yesterday went really well, with 2 hours in the danger/cramp zone, just slightly slower than all 3 marathons up until the cramp hit.  I covered about 25km with no issues and feeling really comfortable.  I did a sweat test too and was surprised I only lost 2.6kg, albeit in 6 degrees celsius (43F).  The Precision Hydration calculator says I only need 300ml per hour based on that, and race day is likely to be colder.  I'll probably keep it at around 500-600ml of Precision 1500 drink.  The coming week looks like similar mileage but cutting back the long run and more of a speed focus.

Weekly for period: From: 06/05/2024 To 12/05/2024

Totals: Time: 08:44:50 - 🦅Imperial: 63.35 mi - Metric: 101.92 km

It was a strange race.  I was fine through 20K, which is about all my training could support, then everything fell apart and most of the rest of the race was talking myself into not quitting. I ran 9:11:09, more than an hour slower than I had hoped to run. On the bright side, a definite oddity and made me glad I had persevered, was finishing second male and getting a nice plaque.  Aside from the winner who set a new course record of 3:27:19 (note the huge gap between him and me), all the other men were geezers like me (69 and older) and they all ran slower.

 

Mark - Sounds like a fun few months in front of you.  Your coach has taken you to great places but I agree, there's no reason why you can't coach yourself now especially with your outlook on doing events more for fun.  I don't think your PR days are behind you though, depending on what you want in the future.

I guess it's more that I'm just not really chasing them specifically.  If I end up hitting one, great.  But it's not the motivator in the same way it was a few years ago.

Anyways awesome job on that LR.  The dead zone gets bagged a lot but I've always enjoyed a good Z3 run.

WCRunner - congratulations - that second place indicates just how tough the race was.

MMerkle:

"Several people I know who are slower than me in shorter events but faster than me in the marathon keep doing these "crazy" 20-23 mile long runs around or under 7 minute mile pace average. What's up? Maybe my day 1 argument on this thread needs to come back. I'm fed up with the marathon once again and maybe it really IS the case that you need to blast some very long long runs near or at marathon pace."

One thing to consider - you don't know if those fast long runs are the cause of their marathon performances or if those fast long runs are what limits those runners from running faster at shorter distances.

Also, it can be hard to tell if a) someone is truly running 40km run at 90% of marathon pace, or b) running 40km at something faster than 90% of their marathon pace, which then adds enough fatigue that their marathon pace on race day is slowed to the point where that "90% of marathon pace" ends up being exactly that.

I also think that we need to be cautious about taking TOO much from the training of those who are trying to run as fast as they can for ~2 hours and applying it on a proportional basis to the training of those who are trying to run as fast as they can for 2:30-3 hours.

Let's fight.

 

Several people I know who are slower than me in shorter events but faster than me in the marathon keep doing these "crazy" 20-23 mile long runs around or under 7 minute mile pace average. What's up? Maybe my day 1 argument on this thread needs to come back. I'm fed up with the marathon once again and maybe it really IS the case that you need to blast some very long long runs near or at marathon pace.

Speculating, but perhaps they’re specializing.  Endurance vs speed. I personally don’t want to run a 20 miler ever at any point in training. Even if it was a 3 E + 14GMP+ 3E. I might as well race a half marathon at that point and get new training paces instead of running a hard workout on a weekend. 
I also don’t think my 5k represented my marathon times simply because I hadn’t spent much time focusing on 5k speed.

Really too soon to tell about recovery.  If I sit too long It's hard to walk when I get up.  I also developed a mild pain in my right hip, so I'll have to be careful that it isn't or doesn't become a real injury.