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Training paces for Pfitz 18/70? (Read 250 times)


Bad Ass

    I did that the first time I did Pfitz but Pfitz gives you the paces by indicating the HR ranges you should be running the runs at.  I follow those now.

     

    Good luck!  I love the 18/70 plan and it's the one I'm currently using for my multiple marathons.

     

    So, I'm toying with the idea of starting a Pfitz 18/70 plan in a few weeks to train for a Sept marathon, and I'm wondering what to use for training paces.  Should I just plug my times from a recent race into McMillan and use those paces?  I have a couple of recent halfs and I have a 5k coming up on Saturday that I can use.  This will be my first time using a structured plan.  Thanks.

    Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

    Blog

    "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

      Thanks Mike & David!  I'm definitely going to have to make sure I keep my easy runs easy.  I've gotten in the habit of just letting my legs go

       

      I can't imagine you running at 9:00 pace, or however slow Pfitz wants you to go for your recovery runs.


      Mmmmm...beer

        I did that the first time I did Pfitz but Pfitz gives you the paces by indicating the HR ranges you should be running the runs at.  I follow those now.

         

        Good luck!  I love the 18/70 plan and it's the one I'm currently using for my multiple marathons.

         

         

        Thanks!  I don't have a HR monitor, so I'll just go by pace.

         

         

        I can't imagine you running at 9:00 pace, or however slow Pfitz wants you to go for your recovery runs.

         

        That's gonna be tough.  About the slowest I run now, full recovery with lead legs and cement shoes, is around 8:30.  Altho, with harder workouts, it might be easier for me to slow down on the easy days.

        -Dave

        My running blog

        2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k

           

          ...9:00 pace... 

           

          That's gonna be tough.  About the slowest I run now, full recovery with lead legs and cement shoes, is around 8:30.  Altho, with harder workouts, it might be easier for me to slow down on the easy days.

           

          Find someone slower than you to run with sometimes. Talk. Laugh. Get SO to come with you on bike if they aren't fast enough to run with you. Something like that.

          2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

          2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

            About the slowest I run now, full recovery with lead legs and cement shoes, is around 8:30.

             

            Me too.

            Runners run.

              Ever try dumping the watch altogether? Easy is just easy. Or maybe try all your easy runs a tad slower than you think they should be.

               

               Thanks!  I don't have a HR monitor, so I'll just go by pace.

              All about that bass


              Mmmmm...beer

                 

                Find someone slower than you to run with sometimes. Talk. Laugh. Get SO to come with you on bike if they aren't fast enough to run with you. Something like that.

                 

                Having someone to talk with might help, since I always run solo.

                 

                 

                Me too.

                 

                But you're a lot faster than me.  So maybe I should try to slow down some more.  Altho, like I said, all my runs right now are easy, so the only hard workouts I get are when I race, or if I do something like the hilly 16 miler I did a few weeks ago (I don't normally run hills, so it took a good bit out of me), and now looking back my 6 miles the next day was at 9:48/mile, forgot about that.  So I'm thinking that with doing hard workouts on a regular basis, my recovery runs will be slower than they are now.

                 

                Ever try dumping the watch altogether? Easy is just easy. Or maybe try all your easy runs a tad slower than you think they should be.

                 

                 

                All I do is easy.  I wear my Garmin to track the run, and I'll check my pace while I'm running, but I don't try to maintain a certain pace, I just run.

                -Dave

                My running blog

                2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k

                Julia1971


                   

                  So I'm thinking that with doing hard workouts on a regular basis, my recovery runs will be slower than they are now.

                   

                   

                  I think this is exactly how you should be thinking going in to it.  It's a lot of mileage for you, the mid-week medium and tempo runs take their toll after a few weeks, and the plan only has one off day a week.  You are going to be happy to run your recovery runs slow.

                  You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                  Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight


                  Bad Ass

                    What Julia said.  Don't even talk about McMillan paces.  Most of the time, his paces are too fast for me yet I can race the times he predicts (except for the marathon for asthma reasons).  As you increase the miles and do Pfitz (which I think it's a pretty tough training program), you'll see yourself slowing down your recovery runs more.  And remember you'll be training in the Summer so you'll need to adjust your effort and the pace.  The error will be if you try to keep up with McMillan as your body is telling you to slow down.

                     

                    One thing that I learned from Pfitz is that his GA runs are not easy runs.  They are like an in between a tempo and an easy run.

                     

                    I know the topic might be highly contested, but I recommend a HR monitor.  I run by HR but you don't have to.  What you can use it for is to analyze the run post run and see if you were within the ranges.

                    Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                    Blog

                    "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                      Sorry if I turned this into a you run too fast thread. That was not my intent. I just pulled that 9:00 out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's pretty close. Just remember to run by feel, like you already do. Recovery pace could be 8:30 today, but maybe 9:30 on Friday if the cement in your legs gets too heavy.

                       

                      Good luck!


                      Mmmmm...beer

                        Sorry if I turned this into a you run too fast thread. That was not my intent. I just pulled that 9:00 out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's pretty close. Just remember to run by feel, like you already do. Recovery pace could be 8:30 today, but maybe 9:30 on Friday if the cement in your legs gets too heavy.

                         

                        Good luck!

                         

                        No worries Smile  I'll just have to make sure that during my training I stay focused and keep all of my easy runs easy.  Even if I'm feeling good that day, can't just let my legs go like I do now, because I know that there's going to be a hard workout coming up and I'll need to be ready for it.

                        -Dave

                        My running blog

                        2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k


                        I'm back!

                          One thing that I learned from Pfitz is that his GA runs are not easy runs.  They are like an in between a tempo and an easy run.

                           

                          Yes, this is a distinction that most plans don't make. I used Pfitzinger for years, I think 10+ cycles, before giving Hansons a try this spring. I found I missed the GA runs. However, I would say they are definitely supposed to be closer to easy than to tempo. To me they're sort of just ordinary running, not too fast, not too slow. Whereas with easy/recovery, the focus is simply putting in some miles & getting some blood flow without pushing yourself at all.

                           

                          FWIW when on Pfitzinger I'm around 5:55 - 6:00 for VO2Max stuff, 6:25 - 6:35 for tempo, 6:45 - 6:50 for MP, 7:30 - 8:00 for general aerobic, 8:45+ for recovery, for a three-hourish marathoner.


                          Mmmmm...beer

                             

                            Yes, this is a distinction that most plans don't make. I used Pfitzinger for years, I think 10+ cycles, before giving Hansons a try this spring. I found I missed the GA runs. However, I would say they are definitely supposed to be closer to easy than to tempo. To me they're sort of just ordinary running, not too fast, not too slow. Whereas with easy/recovery, the focus is simply putting in some miles & getting some blood flow without pushing yourself at all.

                             

                            FWIW when on Pfitzinger I'm around 5:55 - 6:00 for VO2Max stuff, 6:25 - 6:35 for tempo, 6:45 - 6:50 for MP, 7:30 - 8:00 for general aerobic, 8:45+ for recovery, for a three-hourish marathoner.

                             

                            So GA is kind of how I run now, just whatever easy pace my legs feel like doing that day.  Not forcing myself to go slow, but also not pushing to stay on pace.

                            -Dave

                            My running blog

                            2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k

                            gooner2004


                              I've used P &D for all 3 marathons  I  have run in the last 13 months and had a personal best on all of them. My last was the London marathon on Sunday where I finished 2:55. I run all long and medium runs at 20% slower than mp for the first half then 10 % slower for the second half. So an example for my 2:55 is 18 mile run = 9 miles @ 7:48 then 9 miles @ 7:09. The recovery run I use a heart rate monitor and  don't go above 65%. General runs at 70-75% using a heart rate monitor. When I am past the base building stage I then throw in some progression runs for the long & mprogressing so an example would be 15 miles split into 3 x 5 I start at 20% above mp then drop 25 - 30 secs of each 5 mile block. It certainly has worked for me. I've been tempted to use hanson but why change something if it works.

                              gooner2004


                                I've used P &D for all 3 marathons  I  have run in the last 13 months and had a personal best on all of them. My last was the London marathon on Sunday where I finished 2:55. I run all long and medium runs at 20% slower than mp for the first half then 10 % slower for the second half. So an example for my 2:55 is 18 mile run = 9 miles @ 7:48 then 9 miles @ 7:09. The recovery run I use a heart rate monitor and  don't go above 65%. General runs at 70-75% using a heart rate monitor. When I am past the base building stage I then throw in some progression runs for the long & medium so an example would be 15 miles split into 3 x 5 I start at 20% above mp then drop 25 - 30 secs of each 5 mile block. It certainly has worked for me. I've been tempted to use hanson but why change something if it works.

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