2011 Goal of Sub-3:00 Marathon (Read 8006 times)

Hey douche....listen up.  First off, you were on pace for SHIT from the start of your race.  10 out of 10 days you run slower than 2:40 if you go out at the pace you did.  You weren't in shape to run close to 2:32.  Period.  End of story.  I know a bit about dumb racing.  That sir was dumb.  You should have known better.

Why are you interrupting a perfectly good disagreement about the art of running?  I was actually finding this very interesting. 

I often wonder if my slow pace for my easy runs needs to be faster if I am going to break 3 hours at Boston.   They are currently in the 9 min range.  Should I worry about speeding those up?  My plan was to start speeding up my long runs on Sunday like this week I was going to do 2 @ 8:00, 6 @ 7:30 and the 2 @ 8:00.  Then in two weeks do the same workout but have the middle 6 @ 7:15 and then 2 weeks later 6 @ 7:00.  I want to start to get miles in at race pace.  Then somewhere in the week start adding in a speed work session.  All of this in December while keep my base in the 60's.

January will be adding in some hills and building the base into the 70's.  Then Feb and March will be hills and lots of miles topping off in the 100's. 

Good plan or bad plan?  I know it is probably unrealistic to think I can run sub 3 but why not at least shoot for it right?

Speed up easy runs?  No!

Speed up long runs?  Yes!

BCR, you have enough marathon wisdom to understand that every day training paces aren't pulled from a chart. Nor that you pick your paces based on goal marathon outcomes. Come on, man.

I'd also say that if you are using a chart to pick your paces then use a race not more than a week or two old. It's about current fitness.

 

So just keep the easy runs as easy as possible?  In other words the only thing that matters with those miles is that your getting miles in.  It wouldn't matter if they were 12 min miles or 8 min miles? 

 

According to McMillian I should be running my easy miles from 7:23 - 7:53.  However, I wasn't running 7:46 - 8:16 for the 3:11. 

 

No, there is such a thing as too slow.  At 12min/mile you WILL continue to develop long-term aerobic fitness just at a much less than optimum rate for you.  What the right number is is for you to figure out.  I suspect you will zero right in on it if you really get your mileage into the 100's!

If I were you I'd run easy miles at the slow end of those McMillan pace suggestions - seems to have worked OK for your 3:11.

 

+1, but you are entertaining. 

 

Mikey said it well somewhere recently, may have even been this thread.  Run your easy pace at whatever pace it needs to be so that you can run your hard runs hard.  The end. 

or as obsessor has been cited as stating, run your hard days hard enough that your easy days have to be easy.  

 

So just keep the easy runs as easy as possible?  In other words the only thing that matters with those miles is that your getting miles in.  It wouldn't matter if they were 12 min miles or 8 min miles? 

 

According to McMillian I should be running my easy miles from 7:23 - 7:53.  However, I wasn't running 7:46 - 8:16 for the 3:11. 

 

2:59:59 Marathon

Endurance Workouts	Pace/Mile	Pace/K
Recovery Jogs	8:23 to 8:53	5:12 to 5:31
Long Runs	7:23 to 8:23	4:35 to 5:12
Easy Runs	7:23 to 7:53	4:35 to 4:54

 

3:11:00

Endurance Workouts	Pace/Mile	Pace/K
Recovery Jogs	8:49 to 9:19	5:29 to 5:48
Long Runs	7:49 to 8:49	4:52 to 5:29
Easy Runs	7:49 to 8:19	4:52 to 5:11

"Easy as possible" would be barely above a walk, would it not?  Or slower than some people walk.  No, L Train got it right -- run them as easy as they need to be in order to be able to do the hard running you need to do.  Any harder and they will compromise your workouts, slower (how much slower who knows) and you have to start to wonder what you are giving up.  I do in fact believe there is something as too slow.  I always use the L Train method of determining what "too slow" is. 

Plan your workouts.  Fill in the easy running.  If you cannot do your workouts your easy runs are probably too fast.

Once my typical easy runs were in the high 6:20s to low 6:40s range.  I was training pretty hard then and tired a lot but my workouts went fine, I was doing tons of volume, and fitness was increasing rapidly so all was well.  My easy runs felt really easy so one day I thought hey, why not speed them up a bit?  So the next day I doubled and ended up doing both around 6:20 flat.  They felt great.  Then the next day I bombed my workout because it turned out I ended up more fatigued than I thought. 

Moral of the story is that a wide range of paces will feel easy, including a range that is really too fast for you to really call easy.  Watch what is happening with your workouts.

And forget that chart above.  You are NOT a 2:59:59 runner right now so why are you looking at those training paces?  You should be training at a pace appropriate for you NOW and over time moving towards the above paces.  If you are consistently in the mid- to low- range of the above paces in early April it is a good sign that a sub-3 is possible.  But if you are doing it now based off what you just ran at Indy you are running too hard.

In terms of getting to sub-3 and what to run fast, I would recommend adding some fast work to the end of your long runs.  The reason Boston can be brutal is that the harder running is in the last 10 miles.  You need to get used to running hard when you are tired...and it will make you stronger overall.  Given your pre-Indy volume you should be able to handle this.  Up until 2-3 months prior to the marathon I like to focus on runs in the 16 mile range and build good quality into those.  Say 4 miles at a good effort after doing 16 is comfortable, building to 8 at the end over time (or several long fartleks in there).  As the marathon approaches the distance increases obviously, and you can alternate harder long runs with easier ones that allow you to put that effort elsewhere in the week.  Obviously on a week you do a 20-miler with 6 miles hard at the end, you'd not going to want to do 2 other full workouts.  An easy long run will allow you to.  The other core workout would be a tempo run, mixing it up in the 4-10 mile range.  My 10-mile tempo runs in trainers under full training load just prior to starting taper have usually ended up right in the range of race day MP.

BCR, you're only hearing 1/2 the message.  You don't do enough workouts, even when you were peak big boy marathon training this summer.