Yasso's, are they the best use of my time? (Read 935 times)

Interesting ... So its a worthless workout and many thing a poor predictor - ie running a good 10k would be a good workout and a good predictor. Why do people do it? The way I did it - Ie 10x800 with 90 second jogs between was both a good workout and actually a decent predictor - Avg 3:02 ran 2:56 Did I at least get the idea of "rest" right? Or does he advocate that you should stand around during your rest? If he ran it correctly ? It would predict a screaming fast marathon - What do you think Nobby415?

I'm not sure what you're upset about or what your actual question is... Q: Is running a good 10k a good workout? -- sure, yes. Q: Is running a good 10k a good predictor? -- yes, I would say so though not entirely Q: "I did 10X800 in 3:02 ave. with 90 seconds job; is it a good workout/predictor?" -- it looks like it; good for you and great workout, no doubt; I can't do that myself...but that's not Yasso 800, is it? I thought the original question was: "Is Yasso 800 the best use of my time?" My answer to that is probably not. It's ONLY a predictor (if done correctly, that is... It looks like the OP switched things around too much to even be a Yasso 800). Like I said, I've talked this with Bart. Take someone who's thinking about running a marathon in 5 hours. He would go out and do 800s in 5 minutes--that's10-minute-mile pace. 5-hour marathon is 11.5 minute mile pace for 26 miles. I would say he should be able to run 10 miles at, say, 10.5 minute pace easily, wouldn't you think? So he would go out run 800 in 5 minutes, jog 5 minutes at, say, 11-minute pace...for over 10-miles. I would not necessarily call this "Speed Work". I'd say he would benefit more by doing 5 X 200 at 7-minute pace because now he would be working on better mechanics; strengthening his legs; ect. I thought Yasso 800, as Mikey and jEfFgObLuE sort of toched, expect pritty strict instruction. You speed things up; go up and down the # of repeats, longer or shorter recovery... Now we're talking something different. Is it a good predctor? I don't know... Was it good for you? Well YOURS worked well for YOU. Well, good for you. Would it work for a 3:45 runner? Have you actuall "formulate" it? Should they do the recovery half of fast run time? Wouldn't that be too hard for them? Bart tried it on many people and it worked pretty consistently IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTION. Have you tried your Dopplebook 800 on other people and did it work as well as a predictor on them as you? It may... Then you can write about it and send it to RW; though it sounds too close to the existing workout (Yasso). You seem to have a good predictor for yourself. Good for you. I know a guy who uses 20k time trial as a predictor. It almost always works. Is it a good workout? Yes! Is it Yasso 800? No. Is it "the bet use of my time?" I don't know...I don't think so.

PS Nobby415 I know you have studied running theories by many times more than I have ... It was a serious question ... What do you think of it as a predictor and from his actual results of running yasso's 800s - What are your thoughts?

Okay, I put quite a bit "serious" thought into your "serious" question... If you're seriously asking me my opinion; I think one of the best predictors would be to run about 3/4 of the distance at 7/8 effort, or 80% effort, and see how you feel. Arthur Lydard used to say; "If there's an event like 20X400m, Americans would sweep.." You go to letsrun.com message board, you'll see several dozen threads saying; "I ran such-and-such repeats. Predict my time..." But the actual marathon, or whatever the race distance is, is to run the entire distance--not to run a certain distance and take a break; that's what you'll be teaching your body to do by doing repeats. There are speed and stamina as the main elements; the event can be more speed-oriented (1500m, 3k) or stamina-oriented (marathon, half marathon, etc.)... And you can be speed-oriented runner or stamina-oriented runner. If you're running a marathon, and you're a speed-oriented runner, what do you think a workout like 10X800m would predict your marathon performance? I personally think something like 20k time trial, a half marathon or even 30k time trial at 80% effort would be a much better predictor for marahon performance. I certainly NOT recommend things like this to, say, someone who's a 3:50 marathon runner--it's too much of a stress for them. Some of you fast guys can, and should be, able to handle workout like that. I have been fortunate enough, last year, to predict my runners' times fairly closely. This one girl improved her 10k PR from the previous year by almost 3-minutes. Each time she ran, I predicted pretty close. One time I said to her (via text message WHILE she's running the race because I didn't want to freak her out with the time like 2 minutes faster than she thought she could do; but Ialso didn't want to say things after-the-fact...). One time she ran 37:32 or something and I predicted 37:40...or something like that. My biggest mis-judgement came on her last race; she was in San Francisco (she was training in Alburqurque at 7000+ feet so it was a bit difficult...). She told me that the course was a bit hilly. Plus she had a calf problem only a week earlier. I thougt she could break 37 minutes but, once again, didnt want to freak her out. I think, by then, her time was down to something like 37:30 or so, so I said 37:20. She ended up running 36:35--a happy miscalculation. We NEVER ran any "predictor" workout. I knew what she had been doing; I knew what she was capable of and how her training was coming along. I was putting lots of toughts into predicting these times; never just a wild guessing. But, without knowing her and what she's been doing and what I thought she was capable of; I wouldn't have been able to predict anything. In my opinion, there is NO simple "prdictor workout for everybody". There was another girl I helped for a marathon. She was stuck at 3:40 for 3 marathons. I worked with her for 2 months, and I ran with her several of long runs. She ran a 25k race--I was pacing other girl so I finished behind her. As we finished and got together, I said to her (I can't remember the exact time) "1:57?" She looked surprised and said, "Oh, you saw my result already?" I was off by only a half a minute. Going into Twin Cities marathon, I told her that I thought she could do 8-minute-pace, so that would be 3:28. It was, unlike the year before, very cold and raining. The winning time was 2:15. She did 3:30. Once again, she never did any predictor workout; I ran with her; I knew what she had been doing, had a sense of what she was capable of. So I could predict her time. My wife ran her PR of 3:47 to get qualified for Boston, she joined a local marathon training group. They had Yasso 800s several times during the "sharpening phase". After the first day, she came home and said it was too damn hard. I told her to just run the first lap hard and jog the secod lap AND the jogging lap (of course, they changed it so they would do 10X800 with a lap jog, which, once again, I feel way too hard for slower runners. So my wife would go joing them on the track; run one lap fast (at supposedly prescribed pace for Yasso 800) and jog 2 laps and catch up with others... She ran her PR and beat (at her level of runners) almost all but a couple of runners in that group. Was Yasso 800 good predictor for my wife? No. Was that a good predictor for those whom she beat? Apparelty no. Though I still think Yasso 800, again DONE CORRECTLY, is probably one of the best predictors for those who are, say, between 2:30 and 3:30ish. The thing about it is that he at least tested on many people. He may actuall say that it worked for people who run 4:30 guys, I don't know... It's just that my feeling is; for slower runners, 10X800 is awfully tough workout; something like 4:30~5:00 for 800m is really not much of "speed" and "recovering" for over 4+ minutes may be too long for them. Wihout any field test, that's my feeling.

Yasso was here today and did finish line announcing duties for the Little Rock Marathon. I should have asked him for you. As it stands, it was lucky that I didn't throw up on him.