RunningAHEAD - Topic: Pistorius Wins Right to Try for Olympic Spot

Rundadrun27

posted: 5/16/2008 at 11:24 AM

http://www.tsn.ca/olympics/story/?id=237916&lid=sublink07&lpos=headlines_main

GaSpartanfan

Life is Good

posted: 5/16/2008 at 12:20 PM
modified: 5/16/2008 at 12:21 PM

I don't know about anyone else but I think this is awesome! how can anyone say that he has a mechanical advantage...give me a break Dead

I hope the dude qualifies and does well. And I hope we( the USA) are well represented with out anyone being charged with having Chemical advantages.. Sad

Run 1000 miles

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finish a half Ironman triathlon

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and a few small races in between

s.crissman

posted: 5/16/2008 at 12:46 PM

I think it is incredible that he's able to do so well, and I think that's awesome for him, and it is great that tech is advancing in that regard. At the same time, I don't know about his participating in the Olympics, simply because I can't tell and I don't think anyone else can either, whether it offers an advantage or not. Since that is the case, I think he should compete where that is a non-issue, which he has, in the Paralympic Games. Yeah, if he doesn't compete, that takes an experience away from him. But if he does compete, and he has an advantage, that takes away from everyone else. What if he does compete, and sets a world record? Still just happened because he was the best person, or because he has an advantage? Hard to tell. What if he breaks the record by alot? He get an asterik? He shouldn't, if there's really no advantage. But the truth is, no one can tell. Putting one person's chance to experience something against the entire sports' integrity is no good, in my opinion, even if that is a tough break for that person. I don't know. That's my gut reaction. I was hoping someone else was going to bring it up, because I'd like to discuss more.

RunnerKSA

posted: 5/16/2008 at 12:53 PM

I think it opens up a can or worms.

Out there running since dinosaurs roamed the earth

Dustin

posted: 5/16/2008 at 12:57 PM

I'm all for giving people a chance to compete, but I think these carbon fiber blades give him an unfair advantage based on the IAAF's initial findings. Here's another question: If he wins a gold medal, are other athletes going to start amputating their legs so they can use the blades too?

mikeymike

posted: 5/16/2008 at 12:58 PM

It's complicated. I think he's gaining an advantage and a disadvantage. Which one outweighs the other? I have no idea. He's still a long way from being world class or even qualifying for the Olympics so it may not matter in the end. But to say it's impossible for him to have a mechanical advantage is a bit naive. Now, if he does compete and set a world record that would be pretty strong evidence that he has an advantage. Since at that level dropping 3.38 seconds from one's 400m time in just a few months does not happen without a LOT of chemical or mechanical advantage.

Runners run

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 5/16/2008 at 1:03 PM
modified: 5/16/2008 at 1:07 PM

I am happy for Pistorius. He is amazing. However, (and I hate to be a contrarian on such a great story):

Quote from GaSpartanfan on 5/16/2008 at 12:20 PM:

how can anyone say that he has a mechanical advantage...give me a break

That is a valid question for science to answer. The IAAF attempted to answer it as follows:

The IAAF said it used the results of an independent scientific study carried out by Professor Peter Bruggemann at the German Sport University in Cologne to weigh its decision. The study compared Pistorius with five able-bodied athletes who are capable of similar levels of performance at 400 meters. In conclusion, the study showed Pistorius was able to run with his prosthetic blades at the same speed as the able-bodied sprinters with about 25 percent less energy expenditure. As soon as a certain speed was reached, running with the prosthetics needed less additional energy than running with natural limbs, according to the study.

So a scientific study found that the blades gave Pistorius an advantage. But then,

The [Court of Arbitration for Sport] panel, after hearing arguments from lawyers and experts for both parties, determined otherwise. In its Friday ruling, the CAS panel determined that the IAAF Rule 144.2(e) -- use of any technical device that incorporates springs, wheels or any other element that provides the user with an advantage over another athlete not using such a devise -- was likely adopted in March of 2007 with Pistorius in mind, and that the testing done in Cologne was likely distorted against Pistorius.

So the CAS overruled the original ruling, in particular saying the above test was distorted against him. But that doesn't mean that his blades don't give him an advantage. I think further study should be undertaken, though the hour is growing late for that. If Pistorius' blades do give him an advantage, then he probably shouldn't be able to compete against able-bodied athletes. Wheelchair athletes do not compete directly against runners, because in certain races, they have an advantage. The Boston Marathon wheelchair winner completed the course in 1:26, about 40 minutes faster than the first runner. The loss or absence of limbs most certainly confers a general life disadvantage upon those people. But that doesn't mean that under certain circumstances that they don't have competitive advantage. It's easy to confuse the two. My bottom line opinion is that if his blades don't give him an advantage, he should be eligible to compete. If the do give him an advantage, he shouldn't be able to compete. Whether or not his blades are a help or hindrance is a question science should be able to answer with an open, unbiased study, and I hope they get it right.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

Hannibal Granite

posted: 5/16/2008 at 1:17 PM
modified: 5/16/2008 at 1:21 PM

Quote from s.crissman on 5/16/2008 at 12:46 PM:

I think it is incredible that he's able to do so well, and I think that's awesome for him, and it is great that tech is advancing in that regard. At the same time, I don't know about his participating in the Olympics, simply because I can't tell and I don't think anyone else can either, whether it offers an advantage or not. Since that is the case, I think he should compete where that is a non-issue, which he has, in the Paralympic Games. Yeah, if he doesn't compete, that takes an experience away from him. But if he does compete, and he has an advantage, that takes away from everyone else. What if he does compete, and sets a world record? Still just happened because he was the best person, or because he has an advantage? Hard to tell. What if he breaks the record by alot? He get an asterik? He shouldn't, if there's really no advantage. But the truth is, no one can tell. Putting one person's chance to experience something against the entire sports' integrity is no good, in my opinion, even if that is a tough break for that person. I don't know. That's my gut reaction. I was hoping someone else was going to bring it up, because I'd like to discuss more.

That is pretty much my take on it. If he really does have an advantage who is to say other runners won't have those legs attached and their real legs removed. It may seem ridiculous to think about, but there was a survey several years ago that asked athletes if they could take drugs that would let them win a gold medal with the absolute assurance they would not get caught, but it would reduce their lifespan by 10 years. Something like 40-50% of athletes surveyed said they would do it or at least strongly consider it. So what is a couple of legs, if that advantage is legal and won't reduce life span? I don't really expect otherwise healthy athletes to start doing cutting off their legs and replacing them with prothstetics, but it does open a door that cannot be closed, especially if he does well at the Olympics. Which I would define as making it to the Olympic final or even semi-final. I do feel for him b/c he is so much better than other paralympic athletes that there is no competition for him there. He wants to compete against the best in the world and see just how good he can be. However, I think a compromise could be reached that he can compete against able-bodied athletes in Golden League or other professional meets as well as the Olympics, but any records he sets are marked as done with prothstetics. And should he, by some miracle, medal at the Olympics another medal of the same color should be awarded to the next finisher. This may seem ridiculous, but the fact is he is different from all the other athletes in a way very specific to the competition, it can be debated whether that gives him an advantage, but it can't be debated that he is different. MTA: If it could be determined his legs don't give him a competitive advantage then an additional medal should not be awarded, but if they do give him an advantage he should not be allowed to compete.

"You NEED to do this" - Shara

protoplasm72

posted: 5/16/2008 at 1:28 PM

Advantage or not he should not compete in the Olympics. It's supposed to be about the human body and pushing it to its limits. It's not politically correct but his body alone is not going to win the race without some kind of mechanical device. I mean if you calibrate them right you can argue rollerblades and rocket boosters don't give you an advantage, it doesn't mean your results are comparable to able bodied runners.

Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson

MikeJA89

posted: 5/16/2008 at 3:19 PM

It's an obvious advantage. He is the only elite 400 meter runner to run his second half faster than his first. He doesn't have lower leg muscles to fatigue and slow him down. If he moved up to 800 meters he would be unstoppable.

Dakota RR

Right on Hereford...

posted: 5/16/2008 at 4:21 PM
modified: 5/16/2008 at 4:22 PM

Quote from MikeJA89 on 5/16/2008 at 3:19 PM:

It's an obvious advantage. He is the only elite 400 meter runner to run his second half faster than his first. He doesn't have lower leg muscles to fatigue and slow him down. If he moved up to 800 meters he would be unstoppable.

That comment appears uninformed to me. Maybe he runs the 2nd half faster than the first because he has to overcome a significant disadvantage in getting up to speed with his artificial legs. Actually, I believe that is true. Yes, he doesn't have lower leg muscles to fatigue, but he also doesn't have them to help him run fast, either. And finally, how do you know he would be "unstoppable" at 800 meters? Do you honestly think he hasn't experimented with racing different distances, just like all elite athletes, to find the distance that suits him best? Or are you just trolling and I've been had? Tongue

Anyway, I agree that there is only one way to find out if the artificial legs confer an advantage, and that is through unbiased scientific studies.

JakeKnight

posted: 5/16/2008 at 4:24 PM

Quote from mikeymike on 5/16/2008 at 12:58 PM:

It's complicated. I think he's gaining an advantage and a disadvantage. Which one outweighs the other? I have no idea.

The Internet would be a far better place if most people answered questions like that. On just about every issue that people babble about. It is indeed complicated.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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milesoftrials

posted: 5/16/2008 at 4:43 PM

What about wheelchair marathoners, why can't they compete with regular runners?

"On most days, run easy. On some days, run hard. But not too hard."

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 5/16/2008 at 4:43 PM

Quote from JakeKnight on 5/16/2008 at 4:24 PM:

The Internet would be a far better place if most people answered questions like that. On just about every issue that people babble about. It is indeed complicated.

Other than having to say GETM to his question within the answer, I agree.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

JakeKnight

posted: 5/16/2008 at 4:46 PM

Quote from milesoftrials on 5/16/2008 at 4:43 PM:

What about wheelchair marathoners, why can't they compete with regular runners?

Cuz that's not how they roll.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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Pistorius Wins Right to Try for Olympic Spot (Read 1097 times)