Base prior to marathon training (Read 1295 times)

Long term planning, looking at a spring marathon and getting a general outline of my plans from now through then. I'll be writing my own training plan with heavy input from Daniels and Pfitz. Would like to peak in the 55-60 MPW range. Pfitz's 55 MPW plans start out in the mid 30s for mileage and builds to 55, a 33% increase. Daniels starts out around 44 miles and only builds 20% over the course of 18 weeks. I know that both schedules have gotten tons of people across the finish line with improved performance. I'm writing a schedule to me, not a cookie cutter "here, run this much". What are your thoughts on how much base do you need/want going into a schedule and how much should that base increase over the course of 16 or 18 weeks?

I think Ennay hit the nail on the head with "CAPABLE". Before this training cycle, I couldn't seem to run 30 MPW without injury. Now, I feel like that's a good base level to kick off from without difficulty. Others might argue 40 but I don't feel like 40 is something I can maintain either physically or mentally without a focused goal race. For this training cycle, I was at a weak 25 MPW base (sometimes I hit it, sometimes I didn't) and I'm peaking at 60.

The more the better.

Hey ! This is just about where I am. Planning a May marathon too. My plan was to build to a base of around 50mpw before the 16 wk programme. I was going to concentrate on easy stuff, staying injury free and just building the miles. For me finding the time is tough so I have started morning runs 6:00AM this is only my second week!. First week was ok but missed my longish Sunday run as I had a touch of a cold. Back at it this morning and hoping to hit 35 by end of week. I plan to keep it flexible for now until I adjust to morning running and then I can tighten the schedule up a bit.

Outee, just glanced at your log. You gotta watch your intensity as you build your base. If you're gonna get to 50 and stay injury free, you'll be better off keeping those everyday runs closer to 8:00 pace than 7:00. Remember that volume is a form of intensity and don't feel bad if you gotta back off the pace a little to get the miles up. It's easy to get caught in the trap of thinking that running faster is the key to getting faster. In the marathon, volume is more important than pace. Let 'er rip every now and then just to make sure it's still there, but not every day. Good luck! If you can average 40-50 mpw between now and May, you'll run very fast.

I'm writing a schedule to me, not a cookie cutter "here, run this much". What are your thoughts on how much base do you need/want going into a schedule and how much should that base increase over the course of 16 or 18 weeks?

Mr. Inertia: If you're writing a schedule specifically tailored toward YOU, and not a cookie-cutter plan, then you're asking a wrong question to a wrong group of people unless we know you REALLY well. I personally think it's a mistake to write down a certain plan with increasing numbers systematically because, more often than not, that (on paper) is the only place the damn number is going up nicely. If you take a look at the plan and think, "Man, this is the XXXth week and I'm supposed to run XXX miles this week..." then you know you're in trouble. I know you're not a novice and have been running quite some time. Have you kept your log? You should have some record of what you've done previously; and if you do, you should go back and study your log--that's where all the answers are. You should look for a certain pattern; when you started to feel good and strong and when you start to feel flat and down... You may see a pattern that, after 3 weeks of "plodding", you suddenly start to feel strong and mileage jumped. Well, that's where you should make a good effort to increase mileage; not some exercise physiologist who might tell you you should increase the weekly mileage no more than 7% or whatever. Some could double the mileage within 4~6 weeks. Should they restrict the mileage increase even they feel so good and strong? If you haven't done the base phase yet (which I'm sure you have; I almost feel like I know you--from the name and your previous posts--but I'm too lazy now to go back and check your log...); then your goal should be something like 30' in AM and 45~60' in PM; doubles 3 times a week; one long run of 1:30 on weekend, working up to 2-hours....something like that. As you get fitter, you'll be coveing more distance so your mileage will automatically increase. You won't know by how much; it could be 10%, could be 12.6%...it could take 3 weeks, could take 3 months...Your body will know and let you know. In terms of injury prevention; sure, it sounds quite clever to increase mileage conservatively or keep the effort low and all...; but you may never push yourself or miss the leap doing it that way. Why miss out greatest training gain that could happen during the 4th week simply because the predetermined plan says to cut back the mileage by 30%? Don't forget to do some homework like stretching, core strengthening exercises, good diet... And, most of all, don't under-estimate small pains and aches. Talk to your legs and pay attention; give them some massage or ice massage while watching TV at night. Cold wet muscles are always open-invitation to injuries. I'm always amazed how "runners" in this country would just get together with buddies in the park or something, go for a run, come back and just hop in a car and go home (or worse yet, hang around and socialize) without changing gear and wear something warm and dry. When I get together with my runners elsewhere and workout, I make sure they'll change afterwards, particularly wear pants to keep their legs warm afterwards. Injury prevention is all about listening to your body and taking care of small things; not following some predetermined easing-up base building schedule.

Bugs: I KNEW someone's going to make a comment about those doubles...and it's got to be YOU! ;o) Yes, something like 20~30 MINUTES in the morning. I look at a morning jog as a warm-up exercise as well as a good way to get a routine of running; just get it over with first thing in the morning. None of those excuses like "Well, my daughter called me from school and I had to go pick her up so I ran out of time to go run..." For someone doing 40MPW, I'd say they'd be doing, what, 12-minute pace for the morning jog??? That's just a couple of miles. If you "double", say, 3 times a week, that would only amount up to be less than 10-miles a week. I don't think that's too much to ask??? I'm not quite sure of your second question... So 16-weeks before the marathon??? I guess a big thing about myself putting a marathon training program together is the duration of focus. When I "coached" my wife for her first marathon, she kept asking me when I would actually put the schedule together... I held on and held on and held on until Fourth of July (her marathon was the last weekend of September). I basically gave her a 10-week schedule. Well, first of all, she had been running so I knew where she was at; she wasn't a complete novice. So 10-weeks! That's a long time to "focus". How many of you can concentrate on a single goal for over 2 months time? I mean, this include what you eat and all as well??? I saw that NOVA program where they had 12 people trying out to run a marathon. I remember, they all had some tough time going through the program through the heart of winter... That's normal. Mentally, it's not that easy to concentrate for a long time. Some people can; and all the power to them. But I wouldn't really like to see a marathon program going anywhere beyond 12~16 weeks. 16 max. Okay, I guess I sort of cheated too. Before I put her on this 10-week program, I told her to get prepared by doing a few 2-hour runs. So, beside any structured program, she did go out and did a couple of 2-hour runs and, along with them, did do some preliminary training. But these were so loosely put together that she did it without any mental pressure. So I guess, if I sort of got your question right, I think the core period of marathon preparation, you might consider, could be anywhere from 12 weeks out till 3~4 weeks before the actual marathon. So any solid workouts you'd like to complete probably should be fitted into that period. So if you think you might need some break, you might want to consider that before or after (well, after would be a taper anyway) that period. So if you feel good, should you just go, go, go??? Well, I'd say it depends... I've experimented different things before; I've done things like 20-milers 3 days in a row; or doing 3-times-a-day routine for a week; or running up to 125 miles a week... I'm going to try what Lorraine calls "crash training" with Susan this winter where I'd prescribe her to do a heavy week one week followed by easy (significantly easy) week. She tried that with a guy she's coaching last winter where he went up to running 170 miles a week! On the other hand, I've also done things like taking several days or even a week (like the second week of crash training) where you actually force yourself to take it easy. I think it's just a matter of balancing and knowing a certain pattern of your body's reaction. Things like; when I get stressed out, it comes to my eyes. I wear hard contact lense and, when I get stressed out, one of my eyes get so sore that I just cannot wear one. That, to me, is a very good sign that I am getting stressed out. I take it easy, sleep more, skip "That 70s Show" and go to bed early... That's a signal. Such a pattern shows up in training as well.

EGH3, I'm sure the doubles was just a suggestion, may not work for you but others find it a wonderful idea from the norm.