Geoff Roes: Ultrarunning is Dead (Read 847 times)


You'll ruin your knees!

    Just for discussion/fun, have you switched from road to trail racing, from sub-26.2 to longer?  Reasons?  How has it worked out?

     

    1) Yes

    2) If I have to explain it, you won't understand

    3) worked out great... I spend lots of time thinking about it, wishing I could still do it.

    ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

       Best thing is the world! You get up early, the sun breaking through the steamy Summer mists at daybreak. Out on the trails, you are alone with your thoughts and the gentle woods. Every spider web you run through is proof that you are the first in those woods that morning, charting the first footsteps through the virginal day.

       

      I've had perfect prints of orb webs on my face a couple of times.  Maybe it makes a person look badass.  Maybe not.

      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


      Ostrich runner

        I'm not sure I was ever much of a road runner. I was better in CC than track as a kid, and I've never done a road marathon. I vacillate on my interest in trail ultras longer than 50k. That said, having interesting terrain and sights is as much the goal for me as going fast. On the stuff I prefer to run, I have trouble imagining ever being able to navigate the various obstacles safely at the speeds I used to be able to run a 5k or hm on pavement. I guess that pretty much squares with what Roes is saying.

         

        mta: I also find myself less interested in racing (and I think this is true of many of the better trail runners I know). More often, a group will just get together and run an ultra course just for themselves without all the hubbub of paying for a race.

        http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum

          I could always do with some foot and ankle strength.

           

          Speaking of tough trails, one of the guys I sometimes run with runs this one every year. Not an utlra and, yet, only two guys went sub-3.

          "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

            Speaking of tough trails, one of the guys I sometimes run with runs this one every year. Not an utlra and, yet, only two guys went sub-3.

             

            Just read the trail description, wow.  I like trail running, but that makes me wonder whether there are some trails that are simply meant to be hiked, not run.


            I'm back!

              Just for discussion/fun, have you switched from road to trail racing, from sub-26.2 to longer?  Reasons?  How has it worked out?

               

              I've always done most of my training on trails. But for some time now I've had a tension between my goals of running faster marathons and running longer/faster ultras. I don't expect to give either up any time soon, though I can see that if I hit some really big marathon milestone -- say 2:50 -- I might skip a year or two of marathoning. Maybe it's silly, but I've always viewed my marathon time as my single most definitive metric as a runner. And truthfully, it is likely the distance I'm best suited for. But now I am eyeing 24-hour time... though I have yet to run one. (But then, that's typically an example of non-trail ultras.)

               

              I ran 18 marathons before my first ultra, but now the tally stands at 74 marathons / 22 ultras, and I expect it to move more in the ultra direction.

               

              Julia and TO, I have had my share of spills, too.  But even A. Krupicka was out for a while after taking a nasty spill. It seems like part of the game, an unattractive one, at that.

               

              I guess I'm lucky there. I don't fall. Ever. I trip all the time, kick every rock and root, but I always manage to recover.

               

              I think that once those stabilizing muscles get stronger/ankles get more flexible, the balance shifts towards trails as far as being better for joint/repetitive stress type injuries... 

               

              Yes, absolutely. Everyone should do a fair amount of training on trails if at all possible, whether they race trails/ultras or not.

              northernman


              Fight The Future

                just curious about trail running. I imagine it's not possible to have a "typical" trail, but if there were, what do you think would be the relative pace at which you run on a trail compared to your street pace?


                I'm back!

                  just curious about trail running. I imagine it's not possible to have a "typical" trail, but if there were, what do you think would be the relative pace at which you run on a trail compared to your street pace?

                   

                  It really all depends on the trail. It will always be a little slower, given the lack of a totally smooth surface. But for easy, relatively flat trail, maybe 0:30ish slower. "Typically" for me, on my local trails, a minute or two slower.

                  Julia1971


                    Quote from DaBurger on 7/26/2013 at 8:23 AM:

                    I think that once those stabilizing muscles get stronger/ankles get more flexible, the balance shifts towards trails as far as being better for joint/repetitive stress type injuries... 

                     

                    Yes, absolutely. Everyone should do a fair amount of training on trails if at all possible, whether they race trails/ultras or not.

                     

                    I'm not following.  Why would I benefit from training on trails if I never plan to race on one?  Because I want stronger ankles?

                    You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                    Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight


                    I'm back!

                      1. The extra stability you gain from working muscles you don't work on the road will actually help you even on the road.

                      2. Over time, less injury.

                      Julia1971


                        1. The extra stability you gain from working muscles you don't work on the road will actually help you even on the road.

                        2. Over time, less injury.

                         

                        I see.  Re #2, though, I remembered this thread from a couple years ago.  The article raised questions about the idea that soft surfaces are better for preventing injury.

                        You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                        Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight


                        Am I there yet?!?!

                          "Best thing is the world! You get up early, the sun breaking through the steamy Summer mists at daybreak. Out on the trails, you are alone with your thoughts and the gentle woods. Every spider web you run through is proof that you are the first in those woods that morning, charting the first footsteps through the virginal dawn."

                           

                          Ohhhhkay, I throw a ****fit every time I accidentally inhale a bug while running on the road.  If I'm going to try trail running, maybe I will buy a motorcycle helmet with a good visor.  Spider webs? Shocked

                           

                          But seriously, I'll give it a try. maybe on one of the county forest preserve trails.  But not with the Skechers I run in. Those things collect rocks in the soles so easily.  A city in Chicago park called Horner Park, on Irving PK & California has a dirt trail, and I end up picking out a lot of mud & stones from the soles. Maybe the GoBionic trail shoes have a better sole configuration.

                          Madison Marathon 11/10/2013    5:05:50
                          Biggest Loser Half Marathon 2:17:49
                          Next races: Chicago Marathon 5:30:16
                                              Madison Marathon 11/9/14
                                              Madison-MiniMarathon Aug. 2015

                            There other great thing about trail ultras are the aid stations.  Damn, I never want to leave those buffets.

                               I guess I'm lucky there. I don't fall. Ever. I trip all the time, kick every rock and root, but I always manage to recover.

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Same for me, but it helps when I usually run the trails with a group of 6-12 people and if you fall you owe everybody pancakes.  Keeps the concentration level higher.  Pancakes taste much better if somebody else is paying for them.

                                I see.  Re #2, though, I remembered this thread from a couple years ago.  The article raised questions about the idea that soft surfaces are better for preventing injury.

                                I think you need to make an important distinction between injury risk, and stress on your body.  Yes you can still get injured on trails, but you can get injured on the roads too.  Over time though, you'll see less stress on your body running on softer surfaces, and probably find you're able to run more.  (many people already were talking about their improved recoveries from trail runs vs road runs)

                                 

                                For example, today's run for me was 5 laps around a park that we ran XC workouts in during college.  I was just feeling

                                beat up, and if I needed to do that run on the roads, I probably would have taken the day off.  But I had this grass option available to me.

                                 

                                Now later, when I get an over training injury because I ran when I should have taken more days off, someone like this Doctor could say "SEE! running on trails doesn't prevent injuries" because I ended up injuring myself, but I feel like I would get injured much sooner if I didn't run on the grass.

                                Know thyself.