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Foot/knee biomechanical issues? (Read 1040 times)

    Funny you should mention that right now ...
    /chuckle

    Roads were made for journeys...

      zoom-zoom, Going back a few posts, I don't know you that well but from what I can see from here in cyberspace I don't see signs of overtraining, FWIW. Generally overtraining is marked by serious fatigue and a total loss of competetive desire, as well as a generall loss of joy in running. Based on your recent race and Oct 4 run, I don't think that's the case. You seem to be suffering the normal wear and tear of a runner who is training at higher mileage than before. You'll probably adjust and be bettor for it. How long have you been running if you don't mind my asking? I think most people have some imbalances. For me, its always been my left side that gives me trouble. Probably worth getting the hip thing looked at to be safe but theres a decent chance it is not a big deal. One other thing I'll add is the value of strides. I have become a much more durable runner and have far, far fewer nagging injuries since I became much more religious about doing strides. I used to do them once in a while, but now I do them at least 2 x a week. I'll usually just include 8 x 20 seconds at somthing like mile race pace in the middle of an easy run with full recoveries (usually a 40-45 sec jog). I focus on form and posture and turnover. But you can also go to a track or soccer field and do 8 x 100 meters or some such. Just a thought.

      Runners run.


      Needs more cowbell!

        How long have you been running if you don't mind my asking?
        Almost 6.5 months, IIRC. The strides suggestion is a good one. I had been doing farleks here and there and hills, but I decided to cut speedwork once the hip starting bothering me (mostly because the little research I've done suggests that hills can aggravate hip flexor issues). Would strides be much different compared to the fartlek-ing? I really enjoy the variety with speedwork (and was a sprinter in HS, so it's kind of something that just feels *right* for me, too), so I hate to eliminate it entirely. k

        I shoot pretty things! ~

        '14 Goals:

        • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

        • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

          mikeymike - So from your point of view the jump from 68 miles in August to 111 in September is nothing to be concerned about when nagging injuries keep popping up? Confused Not trying to argue here, just trying to understand where you're coming from. How long do you think it would take on average (since everyone's different) for a body to get used to increased milage and for these types of problems to go away? (modified to make these questions closer to what I was trying to ask...)

          Roads were made for journeys...

            Almost 6.5 months, IIRC.
            Then I think it is totally normal to be feeling a lot of new aches and pains. I ran in H.S. and then always ran a little for fitness and to stay in reasonable shape for other sports through college and my 20's but when I was about 30 and had a couple kids, is when I started running road races and training more regularly for running because it was the only sport I could do entirely on my schedule with most of my training before dawn. I had all kinds of "injuries". I had foot issues, runners knee, occasional hip problems from an old rugby injury, quad issues and probably several others I've forgotten. The runners knee was probably the worst--at times it actually limited my running. But I managed it with ice, occasional ibuprofen and just believed that if I was able to train consistently enough for a while my body would adjust and the muscles and connective tissues specific to distance running would become strong enough. Eventually I was right. I'm turning 37 in 2 months and I run pain free 90% of the time now. There are still the occasional nicks and strains but nothing to worry about. wingz, as you suggest there's no perfect rule for how long a person will take to adjust to new mileage highs, or how much mileage a person can handle. It is an experiment we all have to go through to find out. The 68 to 111 jump did stand out to me but then she leveled off at the mid-20's per week for about 5 weeks in a row, so I think it's manageable. You can make steep jumps in mileage over a few weeks if you then level off for a while and let your body adjust. Granted I have a lot more lifetime miles under my belt and I'm still not training near my lifetime high water mark, but look at my jump from May to June to August. I think I ran a total of 6 miles in May (with a new baby in the house) then low 100's in June an over 200 in July. Basically I took the month of June to go from zero to 50 mpw and have just hung in that range since--letting that sink in for a while. I was pretty tired and beat up the last half of June/first half of July, but I've adjusted now and I feel great. It takes a few weeks, maybe a couple of months for a new mileage high to "soak in" and start to feel normal. As for the aches and pains to start subsiding--after about a year of consistent running I noticed a big drop-off in the little minor injuries--especially the runners knee--then over the next 5 years they have continued to become less and less frequent and noticeable. It can definitely be a grind sometimes, but in the long run it's worth the effort, I think.

            Runners run.


            Needs more cowbell!

              mikeymike - So from your point of view the jump from 68 miles in August to 111 in September is nothing to be concerned about when nagging injuries keep popping up?
              Note my July mileage, though...only reason Aug. was lower is that I didn't run for pretty much the first week of Aug. when I took my trip to LA. So there wasn't a sudden jump, really. And I still never increased my mileage more than 10% from week-to-week. I suck at Math, but it's all about exponential increases. k

              I shoot pretty things! ~

              '14 Goals:

              • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

              • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                Would strides be much different compared to the fartlek-ing? k
                Strides are generally so short in duration that they do no harm. I usually do them on tuesdays and fridays as part of a 50-55 minute easy run. So out of a 50-some minute run I'm actually running fast for a total of maybe 2.5 minutes. It takes nothing out of me. The important thing is to accelerate gradually up to "fast-not-sprinting-speed" then hold it, then glide back down gently to an easy jog. Rapid acceleration/deceleration is bad. And start slowly--maybe do 4-5 x 20 seconds once a week for a couple weeks then add 1 per session until you're doing 8-10 at a time, then add a 2nd day per week, etc...

                Runners run.


                Needs more cowbell!

                  Okay, so that is pretty similar to my fartlek runs. I would generally pick up speed for 20-30 seconds, then gradually slow down. Most runs I would do that maybe a half-dozen times over the course of a 3-4 mile workout. I always like those workouts, so I may try to re-introduce farleks/strides, but still leave out the hill work (as much as I like the long-term effects of that type of work) until the hip flexor pain has been gone for a while. k

                  I shoot pretty things! ~

                  '14 Goals:

                  • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                  • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                    Zoom Zoom Look at this info on the female knee and let me know if your interested in my exercise plan...I will have to scan some pic and forward it to you, if your interested http://www.hughston.com/hha/a.acl.htm


                    Needs more cowbell!

                      Huh...never really gave any thought to it being a knee issue. Wouldn't ACL problems primarily cause knee pain--my knees are actually pretty happy (other than feeling a bit stiff after each long run for a day or so)? Would ACL problems present pain in hip muscles or a stiff lower back? k

                      I shoot pretty things! ~

                      '14 Goals:

                      • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                      • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                        What you probably have is the internally rotated hip which goes along with the pronated feet...this is a common anatomy type in women and puts them at an increased risk for ACL tears. You probably have a increased risk of an ACL injury if you were to choose basketball or gymnastics instead of running. I emphasize, running does not put you at high risk for ACL tear...this type of anatomy does put you at risk for hip pain and foot/calf pain with repetative activities like running...as you already know! You have taken steps to correct for your pronation with shoes and you probably are a good candidate for orthotics. You should also put in some regular work on your hip rotator...external rotators heavily, as well as heavy on the abductors and some extra hip extensor work. A PT would do a better job at checking your mechanics than would an orthopod. if you can find a podiatrist with a special interest in runners, run with that, especially if he casts for orthotics him/herself.
                          Look at this info on the female knee ...
                          Mmmmm .... female knees ... Never mind. That picture ruined it. What a buzz kill. Hey, Zoom, ya know there is one awfully easy and logical way to decide the overtraining versus biomechanical debate: for the next couple months, just cap your running at 15-20 miles a week. See what happens. If you're still hurting bad, time to pull out the health insurance card. Or take up synchronized swimming. If not, well ...
                          E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
                          -----------------------------


                          Needs more cowbell!

                            Ha, good thing I'm too uncoordinated for either of those sports--though I did used to play soccer (fullback), so ACL injuries would have been more likely with that, I think. What were the exercises you referred to? k

                            I shoot pretty things! ~

                            '14 Goals:

                            • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                              Im no good with photoshop or I would have dropped a better head on that pic...Ill get back to you with some exercises. I will have to search the web or scan some pictures.
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