123

DEBT LIMIT – A Guide to American federal debt made easy (Read 241 times)

     

    The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

     

    2014 Goals:

     

    Stay healthy

    Enjoy life

     

      don't try to clarify a very complex situation with a good analogy that everybody can understand. Smile

      (I'm looking forward to this thread) haha

      2014 Goals:

      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

      #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

       


      Interval Junkie --Nobby

        I never met a problem that couldn't be simplified to engender an obvious solution . . . that was completely wrong.

        2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

        Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.

        NDR


        Nashville Dog Runner

          Loved it.

          www.nashvilledogrunner.com

            The very reason politicians want to go to war over the debt limit issue is that it can be easily analogized to the economic problems we all face (liberals and conservatives and the people who are increasingly tired of both of those labels.) It makes for a good narrative -- clarifies a complex situation in a way that provokes the usual outrage at the usual suspects. Makes for great TV fundraising.

             

            I will note a few points:

            1) Keeping the debt limit where it is in the video would not really help the borrower significantly, and it could hurt him in the short term as he attempted to address his larger issues.

            2) Federal revenue is predicted to rise as the economy continues to recover, so the analogy does break down somewhat with the ordinary dude borrower (though of course in general the point still holds.)

            3) I do find it a bit disturbing in the video that the banks play the role of reasonable person (up to the end there) and the ordinary guy with a family making $21k a year plays the role of the idiot. As if the problem with our country is the folks earning $21k per year.

             

            I guess I see the video as really dark, as it offers no real solutions and makes no attempt to inquire into why the guy earns so little, why the bank is so willing to lend to the child, why the dude there feels forced to mortgage his child's future against his will, and it certainly makes no inquiry into the way in which that very guy's taxes (though he probably wasn't paying any or much federal tax at $21k) probably went to subsidize that very bank, whose very lending practices were at least part of the reason why we are in this mess to begin with. Also, where is the wife in the picture? At home with the kids? Likely, in the real America, she is out working too, and it's increasingly likely that she is the primary (or sole) breadwinner.

             

            But hey OBAMA REPUBLICANS BOEHNER PELOSI YA YA YA YA LIBERALS CONSERVATIVES BLARGH!

               and it certainly makes no inquiry into the way in which that very guy's taxes (though he probably wasn't paying any or much federal tax at $21k) probably went to subsidize that very bank, whose very lending practices were at least part of the reason why we are in this mess to begin with.

               

              Whoa, careful there, sparky. This kind of thinking will lead to a circular reference that could bring down the entire Internet. See, we can't wonder about the taxes the guy pays on the 21k because his 21k is an analogy for all the tax revenue collected by the federal government. You could burst a blood vessel or something.

               

              I couldn't decide whether the 60 inch plasma represented a few months of the war in Iraq and the trip to Austrailia was a few months of the war in Afghanistan, or the other way around.

              Runners run.

              R2E


              "run" "to" "eat"

                was that kid using a crayon? that's really not credible.

                i find the sunshine beckons me to open up the gate and dream and dream ~~robbie williams


                Ostrich runner

                  The analogy sucks mainly because it doesn't grasp the difference between the debt ceiling and the budget process. It's unclear when the banker guy asks about asking for a raise, whether he means increasing taxes. Also, it seems to suppose that there are reputable economists that think raising the debt ceiling is a bad idea. Then the banker guy states that we are in a recession, which also isn't correct.

                  http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum


                  an amazing likeness

                    Cute. To a point.

                     

                    1. The US CONGRESS passes spending bills, which are laws, directing the US Government to spend money.

                    2. The US CONGRESS passes a law limiting the borrowing which can take place to fulfill the spending it has directed Federal Agencies to make.

                     

                    Yes, it is that simple.  Either adjust one, the other, or both.  The problem and solutions are in the same office building.

                     

                    Any reasonable person, by definition that eliminates some large percentage of 535 members, can see that the US CONGRESS holds both sides of the problem.  Perhaps they don't want to solve it? That's certainly what their actions tell me when I mute their words.

                    Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                      ...Also, it seems to suppose that there are reputable economists that think raising the debt ceiling is a bad idea....

                       

                      The quotes below come from a reputable economist.

                      (Yes, he died in the 1970s, but I bet he'd disagree with your comment)

                       

                      I might also take exception to the comment about us not being in a recession, but that's more in the gray area and likely something you may not want to receive any clarity on right now.

                       

                      "Credit expansion can bring about a temporary boom. But such a fictitious prosperity must end in a general depression of trade, a slump." Ludwig von Mises

                       

                      "There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."  Ludwig von Mises

                       

                      This Link was written 4 days ago regarding this same topic:

                      2014 Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                      #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                       

                        I think the analogy although simple is perfect for waking people up to reality.  There are only 2 options

                        1.  Raise Taxes

                        2.  Cut spending

                         

                        It is irresponsible to keeping blowing money and leaving our kids to repay the debt.

                         

                        Someone has to pay the debt eventually!


                        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                          Cute. To a point.

                           

                          1. The US CONGRESS passes spending bills, which are laws, directing the US Government to spend money.

                          2. The US CONGRESS passes a law limiting the borrowing which can take place to fulfill the spending it has directed Federal Agencies to make.

                           

                          Yes, it is that simple.  Either adjust one, the other, or both.

                           

                          Any reasonable person, by definition that eliminates some large percentage of 535 members, can see that the US CONGRESS holds both sides of the problem.

                           

                          It's sad how that eliminates almost all of those 535 members.

                          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                            There are only 2 options

                            1.  Raise Taxes

                            2.  Cut spending

                             

                            Of course no one in elected office wants to do either of these, as both will make the majority of their constituents unhappy. Most people only like to say they support raising taxes (on other people), and/or cutting spending (impacting other people). We actually did have a plan in place to do both, but as you recall it was called the "fiscal cliff" and was treated as the apocalypse.

                             

                            And it is not even that straightforward. Many people argue for:

                            1. Cutting taxes (mostly GOP)

                            2. Raising spending (mostly Dems)

                            Both as means of stimulating the economy, to increase tax revenue without raising tax rates.

                             

                            Also it is not always made clear that raising the debt limit allows us to pay for expenses which have already been incurred, not fund new spending. So making cuts does not eliminate the need to do this. Also that this administration did not pioneer the practice, but it has in fact been raised 39 times since 1980.

                            Dave

                            NDR


                            Nashville Dog Runner

                              Hello, Greece?  How are ya?  See you soon!

                               

                              First, I voted for Obama 4 years ago.  Second, I am a veteran who served my country for four years.  I have seen firsthand the insane amount of wasteful spending that occurs in the military alone.  At the end of each fiscal year, we were all told to order as many pieces of equipment as we liked (to,  of course,  help us perform our duty).  Regardless of whether we needed it or not, we were told to spend/order as much as we wanted.  That way, our budget would not be cut the following year.  This is ludicrous, wasteful, and thievery, really.

                               

                              Now, this is only one tiny part of this one Air Force Base.  Let's just assume that this happens in all the different little sections of that particular Air Force Base.  Let's pretend that each of those little divisions is pulling the same crap and ordering stuff they don't need, just so they can have the same amount of money for the next fiscal year.  Apply that to every other Air Force Base, now add the wasteful spending of the other branches of the military into the mix: Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard.

                               

                              Whew... I get kinda tired thinking about that.  I feel pretty guilty when in the past I've heard that troops haven't had enough protective gear or other necessary equipment, because my division and many others were so wasteful.  That's a tragedy.

                               

                               

                              I only touched on the military spending and there are numerous other wasteful spending practices of other agencies that Republicans and Democrats alike support.  It's disgusting.  It makes me apathetic.  It makes me not want to vote because I feel like I'm voting for sh#tty options.

                               

                              As a daughter of two immigrants, who professed to really love paying their taxes, I have to say I disagree.  I'd frequently hear my parents say that when they paid their taxes, it was an honor because it paid for so many good things.  I disagree here, but not entirely.

                               

                              Most of the Democrats (and Republicans) that I know, when tax time arrives, find every single means to HOLD onto what is theirs.  They try and find every loophole (Republicans and Democrats, okay) possible to get out of paying taxes.  Many of us, in the next few months, find a tax person to help us keep what we feel is ours.  Some people even interview and search out the tax consultant that most aggressively fights for us.  Man, I feel like a bad person trying to actually keep what is mine.

                               

                              Anyhoo, this is just my .02.  It is hard to understand the WHY  behind the military's spending, government programs, and a whole mess of other crap.   I believe that our Congress and whoever is President at the time, spend our money, because it is a way to show that they have the power to do what they want.  That is what needs to change.  The perception that what is mine/yours belongs to them.  My life, my hard work, sweat, those things belong to me.  I own them.  That is what they don't get.  The whole lot of them disgust me to no end.

                               

                              I just think the video is pretty funny and somewhat analogous to what is going on today.  I'm sending it to my Democrat/Republican friends, most of whom I don't agree with, either way.

                              www.nashvilledogrunner.com

                              NDR


                              Nashville Dog Runner

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWt8hTayupE

                                 

                                I never know how to get this right.  If someone wants to make it easy to get to the site, please feel free to help me out.

                                www.nashvilledogrunner.com

                                123