I think the answer is it always 'it depends' but too much? (Read 1196 times)

Basic Question: Am I running too much?

History: 20+ years ago I was a fairly competitive runner. I qualified for Nationals in college for both track and cross country. Qualified, but I didn't scare the real contenders.  I was a middle distance runner. sub 50 quarter, sub 4 1500m, 9 and change steeplechase and mid 14 5000m.  That training philosophy was run longer than the race for endurance. Run everything hard; never recall a training run over 6:15 pace.

I run with a club and there are (here too) two basic philosophies: Run as little as possible, it’ll kill you and run hard. I think the answer is specific to the runner and I will say that I feel weak and under prepared if I only run 4 days a week and float around the 40 mpw mark.  I really started showing improvements in breathing, endurance and speed when I started working harder (btw, this did not surprise me).  I have always felt I knew my body pretty well, so if I had a hard workout one day and feel sore or tight I either fully rest or rest by running short and slow.

Since October, 2010:

couple weeks of 3 milers a couple times a week in Sept. Nothing for the prior 20+ years.

October struggled to get 8 miles in walked at about 7.5 and the pace was 8:40s.  At this point I am not yet committed to returning to running.

Late November got up to a long run of 12 miles and made it through at about 8:20-8:30s, but felt horrendous. Backed down to all sub-10 for a few weeks, but I was approaching daily or 5+ runs a week.

Early January I ran 15 at 8:45. It felt ok and I fell apart after 12 miles, but through 12 almost felt like a runner. That week I started some speed work.

Following week I ran 15 again and shaved like 10 minutes off and it felt almost OK (felt like maybe I am becoming a runner again)

Following week I run 7.5 on Sat and come back with a 12 on Sunday with the middle 5K at 7:00 pace.

Following week (I basically wanted to see if my legs could handle the marathon over the span of a weekend – 26.2 is still a daunting distance to me) I run 13.5 on Sat and 16 on Sun. Sat was rolling hills and Sunday was flat.  Sunday I avg’d 7:50 and really felt ok at the end. This was the first day that I found out why you’re supposed to wear glide or the like and the area between the legs and not the front nor the back took a lot of rubbing.  I’ll also say that I felt that run for 4-5 days.

Following week I did a 7.5 sat and a 14 on really rugged snow.  Felt ok but the time did not reflect the effort since the footing was so bad. This didn’t faze me that day nor into the following week.

This week I did 5 x 1K between 5:35 and 6:15 pace then ran a 15 mile zippy run on Saturday and a relatively easy 12 on Sunday.

Hey thanks for reading so far, now my questions/concerns.

1. Because of my younger days I feel this mileage can be nothing but good, so long as it doesn’t cause injury. I doubt this is true of 40+ yr olds.
2. Is a weekend of 15 – 15 just abusive instead of doing say 18 or 20 and 10 so that I actually have “long” runs or is 30 miles training 30 miles training
3. I do have a goal of a marathon in Nashville April 30. As a first timer I have the simple goal of finishing, but I will say that my running seemed to improve a lot in just the first 3-4 months and with 3 months to go I may be able to have higher aspirations. I doubt the speed work is really helping the marathon, but I can feel that it opens up my breathing and stretches out my legs, so that I can feel more comfortable at sub-8 pace for longer periods of time.  My thinking is that running a 1/2 , mile, K at a really fast pace makes the training paces feel more comfortable.
4. While I am trying a marathon, I don’t know if I want to be a marathoner so much as a road racer (5-10K).
5. Does any of this concern any of you more practiced marathoners? If I am paying attention to my body and not running through tiredness or soreness should I be concerned that I am so far ahead of most first tome marathoner schedules?
6. Is the European swallow any faster than an African one?

What?

When it comes to marathon training, both of your clubs two philosophies aren't very good:

>> I run with a club and there are (here too) two basic philosophies: Run as little as possible, it’ll kill you and run hard.

What you want is easy running.

I have no idea if you are running too much.  You seem to be running 40ish mpw, which is ok... however, unless I'm reading your pretty graphs incorrectly (which is possible), you are running a lot of that fast.  Too fast? Too much?  I dunno. I stink at giving training advice.

1. I'm over 40 and running > 40 mpw has not made my knees explode.

2. 30 miles is 30 miles, but 18/12 is probably better than 15/15, although it is a loaded question.  If you are running 40 mpw and 30 is in two days, that there might be a slightly bigger issue. 

3. Strides are good.  Careful with all that fast running.  Really careful.

4. Ok?

5. You are ahead of some 1st time schedules mile wise... but watch all the fast running. That's WAY more than I would do at 40 mpw.  But then I'm not that speedy and I don't train "right".

6. A block of wood.

I just wanted to quote the title of this thread: "I think the answer is it always 'it depends' but too much?".

That's what I responded to.  The rest just looked like too many words so I stopped after the title to ask for clarification.

Upon reading srlopez' sincere response I felt a tiny bit bad (okay not really) and went back and read a bit.  The OP has sub 50 400 and a mid 14's 5000 backintheday.  Well now.

At any rate I'd say, no, odds are you're not running too much.

....  That training philosophy was run longer than the race for endurance. Run everything hard; never recall a training run over 6:15 pace.

 

I run with a club and there are (here too) two basic philosophies: Run as little as possible, it’ll kill you and run hard. ...

I think both sentences above are fairly pivotal to your point, but I found both difficult to understand.

A)

 "run longer than the race for endurance" -- Do you mean run more every day than you race distance? Surely most competitive runners do that -- milers pretty much have to, I think

B)

Are the two basic philosophies (not sure where the contrast started)?

• Run as little as possible, it'll kill you

vs

• run hard

I'm not sure what either of these really mean. Does "run hard" mean run fast all the time, or run so much it hurts, or ... what?

With a recent 50 min 8K, I would not train at 8 -9 min/mile paces, but then again I never ran faster than a 7 min/mile pace at any distance so what do I know.  But I'd be careful running even some of my training runs at my 3 K pace, maybe I am a big wuss when it comes to workouts.

MTA - OK I think I misread your PRs They are not actually races are they? 

With a recent 50 min 8K, I would not train at 8 -9 min/mile paces

Okay pet peeve of mine.  If you're going to pull some single random data point of someone's training log to make a point, at least consider big picture.  The 8k in question:

This was sheer murder enacted by the race organizers. There was 4-5 inches of snow. The temp was about 22 at race time with a double digit wind out of the NW. At no point is the course flat for as much as a quarter mile. The first open field is just that an open field with tall grass and ruts created by pasturing animals. It felt great on the ankle I rolled the day before. It was fun watching people fall on near flat ground. The Hills went straigt up and straight down. There were two creek crossings the water was covered by ice before the first runner came through and then we all fell into the creek to our knees. It's a Tuff Man race, but it was a ball; great to have completed it. 

The OP ran 15 miles at 7:26 pace on Saturday so I'm thinking 8-9's aren't going to be a major problem.

Okay pet peeve of mine.  If you're going to pull some single random data point of someone's training log to make a point, at least consider big picture.  The 8k in question:

 

This was sheer murder enacted by the race organizers. There was 4-5 inches of snow. The temp was about 22 at race time with a double digit wind out of the NW. At no point is the course flat for as much as a quarter mile. The first open field is just that an open field with tall grass and ruts created by pasturing animals. It felt great on the ankle I rolled the day before. It was fun watching people fall on near flat ground. The Hills went straigt up and straight down. There were two creek crossings the water was covered by ice before the first runner came through and then we all fell into the creek to our knees. It's a Tuff Man race, but it was a ball; great to have completed it. 

 

The OP ran 15 miles at 7:26 pace on Saturday so I'm thinking 8-9's aren't going to be a major problem.

Yup, see my MTA above.  I should not be commenting on someones training who can run 15 miles faster than my 5K pace.