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Girl Dies After Running Punishment (Read 1321 times)


I'm back!

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2107529,00.html

     

    "Authorities say 9-year-old Savannah Hardin died after being forced to run for three hours as punishment for having lied to her grandmother about eating candy bars. Severely dehydrated, the girl had a seizure and died days later. Now, her grandmother and stepmother who police say meted out the punishment were taken to jail Wednesday and face murder charges."

     

    Wow.

     



    A Saucy Wench

      yeah.  Disgusting. 

      I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

       

      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        Sad story.  On a related story, the mother of that girl gave birth this morning to another child.

        2014 Goals:

        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

         


        A Saucy Wench

          They are "working on " a plan to protect the newborn and another child who lives in the home. 

           

          "Working on"?

          I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

           

          "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


          old woman w/ hobby

            Just disgusting!  

            I'd like to make that mother and grandmother do some running all right.  

            steph  

             

            OCD  If you don't laugh...   

              Obviously, there's more to the story than the words written in the media....

              I don't fully understand the immediate negative reaction.  By reading the stories, it seems tragic, and almost accidental.  It's not clear what type of punishment happened, nor whether water was withheld from the girl or whether there was a medical situation.

              The neighbors interviewed didn't mention the mom or grandmom forcing her to run.

               

              I'll let a jury decide, but for now, I think I'll wonder how this lead to an arrest and "homicide" or possibly "capital murder".

               

              I'm a parent of a child about that age, and although we don't leave him to himself for 3+ hours and have him run for that long, I can see him blow off steam for quite a while.  There's a difference between (1) neglect, (2) homicide and (3) being less than a perfect parent.

               

              Bottom line....

              Sad story.

               

               

              http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/justice/alabama-girl-murder-charge/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

              "We're still interviewing neighbors and other people who may have witnessed the incident of the child running. We'll make a determination whether to upgrade these charges to capital murder," Harp said. "Obviously these people charged are presumed innocent until proven guilty."

               

              "On Friday, Savannah apparently ate a candy bar while on a school bus. Authorities said the young girl had a bladder condition that could have been worsened by eating the candy, according to CNN affiliate WBRC."

               

              "At about 6:45 p.m. that day, Hardin called 911 and said that Savannah had suffered a seizure and was unresponsive, Sheriff Todd Entrekin said in a news release."

               

              "Preliminary reports show Savannah was extremely dehydrated and had a very low sodium level," the release says.

              2014 Goals:

              #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

              #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

               


              I've got a fever...

                This story and these people disgust me, but it seems like ludicrous, hyper-emotional overreaction to charge them with murder, much less capital murder.   It's clearly a case of manslaughter / negligent homicide unless it could be proven that their intention was to kill the girl, which it almost certainly was not.  

                 

                I say lock 'em up for manslaughter and let prison justice take care of them.

                On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                  This story and these people disgust me, but it seems like ludicrous, hyper-emotional overreaction to charge them with murder, much less capital murder.   It's clearly a case of manslaughter / negligent homicide unless it could be proven that their intention was to kill the girl, which it almost certainly was not.  

                   

                  I say lock 'em up for manslaughter and let prison justice take care of them.

                   

                  I'd be more concerned about the fact that she's still having more kids.


                  Menace to Sobriety

                    Obviously, there's more to the story than the words written in the media....

                    I don't fully understand the immediate negative reaction.  By reading the stories, it seems tragic, and almost accidental.  It's not clear what type of punishment happened, nor whether water was withheld from the girl or whether there was a medical situation.

                    The neighbors interviewed didn't mention the mom or grandmom forcing her to run.

                     

                    I'll let a jury decide, but for now, I think I'll wonder how this lead to an arrest and "homicide" or possibly "capital murder".

                     

                    I'm a parent of a child about that age, and although we don't leave him to himself for 3+ hours and have him run for that long, I can see him blow off steam for quite a while.  There's a difference between (1) neglect, (2) homicide and (3) being less than a perfect parent.

                     

                    Bottom line....

                    Sad story.

                     

                     

                    http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/justice/alabama-girl-murder-charge/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

                    "We're still interviewing neighbors and other people who may have witnessed the incident of the child running. We'll make a determination whether to upgrade these charges to capital murder," Harp said. "Obviously these people charged are presumed innocent until proven guilty."

                     

                    "On Friday, Savannah apparently ate a candy bar while on a school bus. Authorities said the young girl had a bladder condition that could have been worsened by eating the candy, according to CNN affiliate WBRC."

                     

                    "At about 6:45 p.m. that day, Hardin called 911 and said that Savannah had suffered a seizure and was unresponsive, Sheriff Todd Entrekin said in a news release."

                     

                    "Preliminary reports show Savannah was extremely dehydrated and had a very low sodium level," the release says.

                     

                     

                    Accidental? Really?  

                     

                    The article you cited also states"(Sheriff)Entrekin's  office became involved after witnesses called investigators to express concerns."  Your statement "The neighbors interviewed didn't mention the mom or grandmom forcing her to run", doesn't seem to hold up.

                    Forcing a 9 year old to run for 3 hours for punishment is nothing short of child abuse, no matter how you look at it. This is waaay over "less than perfect" parenting.

                    Janie, today I quit my job. And then I told my boss to go f*** himself, and then I blackmailed him for almost sixty thousand dollars. Pass the asparagus.

                      Accidental? Really?  

                       

                      The article you cited also states"(Sheriff)Entrekin's  office became involved after witnesses called investigators to express concerns."  Your statement "The neighbors interviewed didn't mention the mom or grandmom forcing her to run", doesn't seem to hold up.

                      Forcing a 9 year old to run for 3 hours for punishment is nothing short of child abuse, no matter how you look at it. This is waaay over "less than perfect" parenting.

                       

                      Accidental ... maybe.   

                       

                      Fair enough.  The original link from time.com, I think, didn't mention the quote you attached.  So, my original question was how they determined it was murder.  After reading this quote, though, it seems as if the calls from the witnesses were well after the 911 call from the mother.

                       

                      Don't misunderstand the theme of my message though.  It seems like a stretch to call an incident like this murder.  It might be, but it may not be. 

                       

                      It's not like the authorities have a perfect track record in terms of pinpointing crimes and the media has been known to sensationalize some crimes and judge individuals before their day in court.

                       

                      I've seen too many Nancy Grace / Greta VanSusterlan stories relating to crimes where they've convinced the public what the answer to the mystery is prior to people having their day in court.

                      2014 Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                      #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                       


                      Feeling the growl again

                         

                         

                        It's not like the authorities have a perfect track record in terms of pinpointing crimes and the media has been known to sensationalize some crimes and judge individuals before their day in court.

                         

                        I've seen too many Nancy Grace / Greta VanSusterlan stories relating to crimes where they've convinced the public what the answer to the mystery is prior to people having their day in court.

                         

                        Not that the courts do much better....

                         

                        My guess is they may end up getting charged with manslaughter.  I seriously doubt they will be able to show intent, though negligence probably won't be a stretch if the medical evidence backs it up.  If.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         


                        Best Present Ever

                          I've just spend quite a bit of time immersed in a relatively high profile murder trial, and have found the commentary, both by citizens getting their information from the news, and that of journalists providing the news to be amazingly, stunningly at times, incorrect.  We have incomplete information, probably some flat out wrong information, are probably not experts on criminal law in the state in question.  We don't know what the grandparents actually did. We don't even know how the seizures and death are linked to the running.   But opining on criminal justice process of the specific case from the information provided is pointless.


                          Feeling the growl again

                              But opining on criminal justice process of the specific case from the information provided is pointless.

                             

                            How's that different from 70.6574% of the stuff we opine here?  

                             

                            Wink

                             

                            But yes, +1 to all of it.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              I've just spend quite a bit of time immersed in a relatively high profile murder trial, and have found the commentary, both by citizens getting their information from the news, and that of journalists providing the news to be amazingly, stunningly at times, incorrect.  We have incomplete information, probably some flat out wrong information, are probably not experts on criminal law in the state in question.  We don't know what the grandparents actually did. We don't even know how the seizures and death are linked to the running.   But opining on criminal justice process of the specific case from the information provided is pointless.

                               

                              I also recall the one time,not that long ago when I served on a jury. After we reached our decision, the judge and attorneys asked if anyone was interested in sticking around to ask more about the case and the process. I stayed because i found it very interesting.  

                               

                              We found out some things after the fact that if I had known would have completely changed my decision on the case.    I went from being somewhat of a believer in our judicial system to very skeptical.  I also left with the opinion that it was just a game for the attorneys on whether they win or lose the case, or how many points of the case they win or lose.   


                              Feeling the growl again

                                I also recall the one time,not that long ago when I served on a jury. After we reached our decision, the judge and attorneys asked if anyone was interested in sticking around to ask more about the case and the process. I stayed because i found it very interesting.  

                                 

                                We found out some things after the fact that if I had known would have completely changed my decision on the case.    I went from being somewhat of a believer in our judicial system to very skeptical.  I also left with the opinion that it was just a game for the attorneys on whether they win or lose the case, or how many points of the case they win or lose.   

                                 

                                I know an individual who was accused of child molestation.  I'm not revealing all the sordid details on the internet but I know all parties involved and, due to that and the supposed timing of events I know it is impossible that it ever happened.

                                 

                                The accusors were two young sisters and also levied allegations that the defendant had abused 3 other girls.  After investigation, the police/DA determined that the 3 accusations beyond the original accusors were not true.  Now, you would think that if your ONLY evidence was the word of these two sisters, and it was determined that they were lying on at least 3 of the accusations, perhaps (or even probably) they were lying about all of it.  However they took it to trial.

                                 

                                The accusors gave four VERY different accountings of events -- in the original interview, with CPS, in the deposition, and on the stand.  In front of the jury, the public defender (accused could not affortd an attorney) detailed....for hours....question after question on which the accusors had given conflicting answers and changed their story.

                                 

                                At the end of the day the jury was hung....11-1, they were ONE VOTE from convicting.  The public defender got the opportunity to ask the jury foreman whey they had thought he was guilty.  The response?

                                 

                                "Oh, we didn't think he was guilty.  But since a child was involved we figured, you know, send him to prison, better safe than sorry."

                                 

                                In other words, 11 of 12 average citizen were willing to send a man they believed more likely to be innocent than not to prison and destroy his life.

                                 

                                The failures on the part of the police, the DA, the public defender system (who pressured him to plead guilty just to get the case off their books), and most disturbingly THE JURY were eye-popping.

                                 

                                And to BoilerTom's comment, the jury was never allowed to hear that the accusors had been kicked out of two schools for...LYING, and had a long history of behavioral problems.  Or, that 3 additional accusations had been made by the same kids which were deemed to be untrue.

                                 

                                My wife and I had actually cut off contact with the accusors and their family a year prior...because these grade-schoolers scared me (it was quite apparent that they had no consciences) and I actually told my wife I was afraid they'd get mad at me for something and accuse me of molesting them or something (which is exactly what ended up happening to someone else).

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                                 

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