2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 207 times)

Oh no, Marby! That sounds terrible! (I mean, fun at any other time and not right under your room!) I am staying in a renovated Victorian-style mansion right outside of quiet downtown Toledo, Ohio. I had no expectations, and I'm pleasantly surprised--to the point that regardless of how I do tomorrow, this trip was worth it. The weather is cool and wet... a lot like Hamburg in the spring. I know it will get a little warmer by tomorrow, but honestly, I'm not letting myself get fazed by it. Even with an adjustment for a higher weather/dewpoint, I could still PR tomorrow, so that's the goal. Just going to try and not cook my goose too soon, hydrate a lot today, and eat my carbs.

(and yeah, considering my signature brags about running at noon in Florida sun, I can't complain about the weather too much. But I will say that I hate hard running in heat, which I think we can all agree to) Thanks all for the good wishes!

wcrunner, I was thinking about that too, with Corbitt. I wonder if it's an age thing. I'm sure he was well-known in his heyday, but his legacy wasn't kept up the same way as his contemporaries. I learned quite a bit from Désir, but I also found it annoyingly didactic at times... but it could also be the nature of the beast, trying to preemptively address any negative responses to the book.

Also, Steve, that workout on tired legs sounds like a great way to emulate tired legs at the end of a marathon.

Marby - love a good metal gig, not so much the night before a race though.

Another week of less mileage, more speed for me.  Mostly working on pace ahead of my first 5k race in a long time.  I have to say the NB Fuelcell SC Elite are growing on me.  I have a pair of the v3 I picked up cheaply end of line which I used for Tuesday's workout and I really enjoyed them.  By all accounts the v4 sound like they are an improvement as well.  To be fair, they were probably an ideal shoe for that workout which was really a sustained tempo effort - 5x under / overs with 6 minute unders at around 3:45/km, and 2 minute overs aiming for around 3:15-3:20/km.  Had a good track session on Saturday too, with 3x 1 mile repeats, at something like goal pace for the 5k next Sat.  Lots of hills on Thursday and in Sunday's long run so it was a pretty good all around sort of week.  Helped by very good autumn running weather!

Weekly for period: From: 22/04/2024 To 28/04/2024

Totals: Time: 05:42:58 - 🦅Imperial: 51.90 mi - Metric: 83.51 km

DW - Thanks for the explanation. My software developer troubleshooter mind would like you to release your inner rebel goth girl and try the low stack shoe in a marathon workout anyway, cause New York will have plenty of downhills and water stops and crowds.
But I why you'd prefer to follow advice from the PT 😁
PS: So I don't buck the trend of sending silly ideas your way, could a shoe maker refit the Hokas with a Vibram outsole so they have perfect traction ?

Marby - Sorry man but that's hilarious in a Schadenfreude way LOL . Last time I had a similar experience was when we went to Prague for the Rammstein concert.
They played 2 nights in a row, and the previous night the fans left the concert and congregated downtown for a post concert celebration, right in front of our hotel.
The only upside was that it was Rammstein songs, so I was torn between being pissed off that I couldn't sleep but at the same time I was humming to the songs.
It sounds like you still did a fantastic pacing job, so kudos for that!

Mark - It's so cool that you're training for the 5k, it's nice to see some training variety on this board.

me - This was a nice week. 2 workouts and got my long run back to 90 minutes with a good mount of vert.

I'm recovered from the soreness from the trail race, but still have not got my speedy legs back.

Let's see if in this next week my 200's are closer to 35 seconds. By the time I can run them in 32 seconds I know I'll be close to sub 2'20'' 800.

There is not a lot of time though, the regional master champs are supposed to be on June 9th, though there's not a lot of info about it right now.

M: 27' E

T: Anaerobic work 5x200 (36.6, 37.1, 37.2, 38.0, 35.9) avg 37

W: 40' E

T: Aerobic work 12x (200m uphill strides jog back down)

F: 60' E

S: 60' E

S: 92' E

I finished Eugene in 3:18:52. I was shooting for sub-3:15 but it was pretty clear from early on that I didn’t have that. But I was able to hold on to the pace pretty well even though it got to be a real grind after around 18. As many of these I’ve run, I keep forgetting how hard they are, lol. It was still my second fastest non-downhill marathon, plus my fastest ever spring race by far. I’ll take it.

Dave - sounds like you were satisfied with the marathon, and I'd call that a win.  Hanging onto pace when it gets hard is how to do it.

I see that DKTrotter ran a solid race given the weather conditions, so yay!  

Marky_Mark - the cat made it across the motorway, right?  Good luck in the upcoming 5K!

Steve - solid week, coming off of that race.

Flavio - but I'm not racing NYC   I'm going for time at Twin Cities the month before.  NYC will just be for fun.

Steve Nice race. That execution sounded pretty good. I think you chose the right time to stop being conservative, and you passsed that guy back towards the end which is always nice.

Dave I'd call that a successful marathon!

darkwave Congrats on your Boston performance, even though it was a tough day. You certainly got a story out of it.

dktrotter You obviously handle the heat well. Impressive.

My Week 

Totals: Time: 09:34:04 - 🦅Imperial: 70.76 mi - Metric: 113.86 km

Base building. I think this summer I am going to go with Jack Daniels "Alien training" from the 4th edition running formula. It's a two week cycle you repeat, but the plan gives you the outline of the weeks and you fill in the actual workouts with what you need. The current plan is 5k - 10k focused training May-July for the usual Twilight series I do. But then on August 17th I'm doing an 8 hour endurance challenge. I still need to think about how the transition is going to work, but all of these races have lots of vert, so I will be doing that regardless. 

Hi all! Thanks for the kind words here darkwave, mmerkle, and flavio and on Strava others of you. It was indeed a tough race in rough conditions, but I feel like I've run in worse. I’m sure Boston this year ended up warmer with the sun and lack of shade. We had 100% cloud coverage and quite a bit of rain, which made things feel cooler even if it never went below 64 degrees. I am also indeed more acclimated to these temps (65F with 60F dew point is a rare day in Florida), so that helped, too. People say it was windy (and according to apps, we ran more than half the race in a 10mh headwind), but I don’t remember it that way, probably because I considered it a relief. 

65°F 🌦️ Dew pt.: 59°F | RunFeel™: (5/10) wet, windy 😓 | 13.7 mi in 10 mph headwind |

I also believe that despite taking two weeks off running 3 weeks into training and having to slowly build back for 4 weeks after that, while not ideal, was still better than getting injured closer to the race. I include my graph of training (all activities, so you can see the cross training) from Jan. 8 (plan start) to April 28. Note, I actually started training a week after getting Covid and still injured, and realized three weeks in (with the help of my doctor) that I couldn’t train through my injury, which is why I took the break. 

Posting the link here since the insertion didn't work: https://www.runningahead.com/logs/ee79c847959346c1980f3d1c085def95/tools/graph?l12=2024-04-29&g12=2024-01-08&zsm=12&zdg=1&x=12&y=20&t=0.

As one can see, I tried to replace the missing running with cross-training, and it helped the return to running feel better. It was definitely worth it, despite long, boring slogs on the cross trainer, since I managed to have 6 weeks of solid training and my paces were getting to a nice spot by the end. Would I have liked to run more miles and have a longer cycle? Sure. I think that would have helped keep the pace through the last miles. Did getting injured make me up my strength-training game and prevent sore quads during the race? Absolutely. Not fighting through quad pain for 13 miles is quite nice. My Achilles was never an issue (though plantar fasciitis is starting to be) and my knee, while not 100%, was still loads better than Philly. It also helped a lot that I wasn’t sick like I was before Philly. 

For anyone looking for a destination race, Glass City is a fine marathon. The course is mostly flat and quite beautiful, if quiet. We ran through residential neighborhoods, around a park, and on a trail, and a deer bound across the path 50 yards in front of me, with another frozen in the trees to the right. It was one of those magical moments. The race is pretty well organized and not too big, and I can highly recommend a B & B (not more expensive than the local hotels) in Toledo. 

I also got high during the race, between miles 18 and 19, and I think not reigning that in led to surging too soon (I should have stuck to my plan of controlled restraint through mile 20 and then doing a fast finish like in my workouts). 

The marathon is a difficult beast. I like CK’s evaluation of how to succeed at it one just had to keep working on oneself, and it will come to one. I feel better about this one than the last four, though, so there's something to be said about that. It helps that I got my negative mental attitude out of the way earlier in the week and arrived at the race optimistic and prepared for the worst. Relaxed control was my main goal going into this race with the weather as predicted. I didn't look at my watch except when it flashed its auto lap. The rest of the time it was set on clock time. 

In regards to pacing, I tried to run relaxed and keep things reigned in for the first 8 miles. Then, I decided to hold it for another 16. Then thought I should maybe wait to pick things up at mile 20. But at mile 16, I turned on my music and that kicked off a new gear, and I probably went too fast. I "bonked" at mile 20, it feels like, with the next few miles really hard to run. Miles 23-26 were just "get it done," but not as painful.

I do wonder if fueling may have been an issue. I tried to do more of what I did during training, excluding the 300 calories for breakfast (can’t stomach much more than before 6am in the morning). I fueled at 5K, and then every 5 miles after that. Maybe it wasn't enough? I could tell at the miles right before refueling that I was starting to have to work harder. So I had one at mile 18 and by the time I got to mile 21, maybe I was running short? I don't know. Still experimenting on that front. The honey stingers were good, but the first station didn't come until mile 11, which made me nervous! I did have three Gus on me to tie me over, though. 

So that’s that. I barely ran a BQ, so there’s literally no buffer, so I’m probably not running Boston 2025. But I already found my peace with that before the race as well. Now, I just want to stay injury free (keep working on my PF and knee) and train for a fast 5K again. Don’t know if I’ll sign up for a fall marathon. I’ll probably sign up for a local ultra and start getting into 100-miler training since the March 2025 Hungryland will come quickly enough. 

DK - While you missed your goal by a bit, completing a marathon without something blowing up on you near the end is a success. BQ is also a nice little trophy to add to it.

Update on Nolan's final track meet. We had a hot day with temps around 85 and he had just completed a long baseball game which he had to play catcher for the majority so we were thinking the 1600m was going to be tough for him energy wise. He had already broken the 6:30 barrier in a previous meet so we talked about just going out aggressive in the first two laps to take a shot and no big deal if he runs out of gas. He was also in the 2nd fastest 1600 heat so he knew he would have a good chance at getting top 2 in the heat. He went out pretty fast but positioned himself about 4th through most of the 1st lap. As he started the 2nd lap, he slowly passed the 3 boys in front to take the lead and completed the first 800m in 3:03, which is slightly faster than his PR in the 800. Half way through the 3rd lap, the other boys had dropped back and he had build a huge lead. He later told me he thought it was really cool to hear the bell ring for him as he completed the 3rd lap. The adrenaline kicked in and his younger teammate had taken 2nd but there was still a big gap. He came to the final straightway and gave me a smile as he went by. I went running down the football field yelling for him with tears in my eyes. He went across the finish line with the big clock showing 6:13 and gave a big fist pump. His younger teammate finished just behind in 6:18 and I grabbed both of them with a big bear hug, which the little guy said "let me breathe!" Haha, I guess I got a little too amped up.

The 6:13 was a 15-second PR and he got 11th overall, which most of those in the top 10 are 5th graders so he will be in good position next year for top 5. Also a good confidence booster for XC in fall. He also ran in the 100 and 400 relays for his team but he was exhausted and was pretty slow.

 

DK - great work and especially managing around the cross training too.  And wow, a deer? I mean, I couldn't believe it when I saw one in a trail race last year, but that does happen in forests... whereas in a road race that's a big surprise!  I had heard a similar theory on fueling, that by the time you think you need it, it's often a bit late.  Just one of those trial and error things I guess.

Check this out at an NCAA D3 regional championship
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrFbg1SEDBmLQQA2a9XNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3BpdnM-?p=deer+knocks+down+cross+country+runner&fr2=piv-web&fr=ymyy-t#id=2&vid=84abaeeaa6c13a9c9b8b05dfdc0498f5&action=view

I was at the meet and just missed seeing this. I did see the deer running across the field.