3 Hour Long Run - How Often (Read 2919 times)

    @Scout7

     

    >>Yes, and I would add that each person has his/her own desires and goals.  Sometimes on this thread, it seems like the >>posters are talking different languages.

     

    >I agree with your first sentence; that's the nature of interactions.

    >But your second sentence is confusing to me.  I'm not sure what you mean.

     

    Someone wonders how to become a better runner.  One responder interprets that as increasing their miles from a jillion to a zillion miles/week and posts accordingly; another interprets that as improving their marathon PR; another as increasing enjoyment.  Not everyone is on the same wavelength.

    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

       


      I feel 3-hour (just ONE of them) is max for marathon preparation for ANY body.  I

       

      Have not read past here yet, but I agree. And if it's not prep for a marathon John, then never that long,

      Ricky

      —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

         

         

        Should I assume by the timing of your first post that it was intended as a response to an inability on my behalf to appreciate the efforts of slower runners?

         

        EXACTLY! Piss on 'em and let 'em flounder in their own beliefs.

        Ricky

        —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

           Yes, and I would add that each person has his/her own desires and goals.  Sometimes on this thread, it seems like the posters are talking different languages.

           

          BS! The goals and desires have been clearly stated. You might need an interperter.

          Ricky

          —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

            I did not read all the responses on here but am simply going to answer the title of the thread's question.

             

            As often as you want and can handle without any unusual discomfort and impact on your normal training.  I would say most do it in preperation for a marathon or greater distance but I am one to enjoy running and just going out and putting in the miles taking in the sights.  Early morning runs put a different perspective on the town you live in as do late night runs and mid afternoon runs.  Run to make yourself happy.  I have done several runs that are 3 hours in length and several that are more.  It is a matter of comfort and desire.  I like the idea of about every 4th week for me but can also relate to every week if life does not get in the way.  What a good day I normally have when I am properly hydrated and nourished before during and after those longer runs.  Usually leaves me on cloud nine for the remainder of the day and also gives me added improved health in my own mind.

             

            Some people start off with no tolerance to alcohol and can only drink 2-3 beers before feeling the effects while some can handle drinking a solid 12 pack or more because they have adpated their body and mind to it.  This is the same for us runners and the time or mileage we put in.  Be careful asking the alcoholic how many beers to drink and also be careful giving advice if you are the alcoholic.

             

            Plain and simply as often as you want to.  You are your own person and if the body is adapted to it have at it. 

            "You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas"  Davy Crockett

              Why must a 20 miler be a "slog fest"?

               Context : Well who said they must be,, I used the term to make a point. about long runs for those doing so,, just for the comfort of having done so.  A quality 20 miler with purpose was not what I was talking about. I guess the point was lost.

              Later

              GST


                The idea not to do runs longer than 3 hours is a surprise to me.  I did quite a few of them this year (most weeks) and dropped my times substantially in every distance from 5K to marathon. And when I was at all slower than I am now, I couldn't even finish a marathon (at any pace) with a long run base of less than 3 hours.

                 

                I don't think the long runs should sacrifice the rest of your training (long runs are usually much easier on my body than any other type of training, personally, even the ones with marathon pace miles, I felt good running the next day) but the outgoing idea never to run 3 hours surprises me and I'd disagree, especially for a slower runner, as long as someone knows that the long run isn't the week's training... it's one facet of the training....  

                 

                I love running long and don't find it stressful (unless I'm racing it) so 3+ hour runs are a favorite staple of my trainng.  I'd probably max at 3 hours (not longer) for training for a race less than a marathon. 

                 

                I'd say listen to your body, if it beats up your body enough that you're not able to hit your quality workouts, then don't do it, but I think the endurance base can be quite helpful.  I mean, during marathon training some of my quality workouts took close to 2 hours total... couldn't do that if that was my long run. haha.

                  I mean, during marathon training some of my quality workouts took close to 2 hours total... couldn't do that if that was my long run. haha.

                   

                  Me too. Those quality workouts were my long runs.

                   

                  I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I see a lot of "I couldn't" and "it's unimaginable" and "this is necessary" in this thread from a lot of new runners, even though I and others have given concrete evidence from our logs that "you can," "it's possible," and "it's not necessary" to train well for four hour races without three hour training runs.

                   

                  Please, if you love running long, don't stop because of any advice that I give. But what makes me continue to come back to this thread is the persistence of the "can't."

                   

                  pRED's comments notwithstanding, I've tried to be straightforward in my reasoning, and hostility towards any runners who are slower than I am, is the furthest thing from my mind.


                  Best Present Ever

                     

                    I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I see a lot of "I couldn't" and "it's unimaginable" and "this is necessary" in this thread from a lot of new runners, even though I and others have given concrete evidence from our logs that "you can," "it's possible," and "it's not necessary" to train well for four hour races without three hour training runs.

                     
                    True, but what I struggle with is how to figure out if what you're saying applies to a broad range of people or not.  I run with a lot of fast, experienced marathoners.  They all run 20 miles routinely.  Many run more than that.  My colleague (in her prime, she was olympic time-trials fast) encouraged me to run 30 mile long runs in training because that's what worked for her (I didn't, figuring that what a person who ran 100 mile weeks did doesn't really translate to someone who runs half that).  So I'm not arguing, and don't feel hostility, just confusion.  I have limited time and resources to devote to running.  I want to be as efficient as possible in planning my runs, which, truth be told, are rather selfish and put a bit strain on my family.  Anyway, it's interesting to think about.  And it was entertaining to bring up on my morning run.  Folks thought y'all were insane. 
                      True, but what I struggle with is how to figure out if what you're saying applies to a broad range of people or not.  I run with a lot of fast, experienced marathoners.  They all run 20 miles routinely.  Many run more than that.  My colleague (in her prime, she was olympic time-trials fast) encouraged me to run 30 mile long runs in training because that's what worked for her (I didn't, figuring that what a person who ran 100 mile weeks did doesn't really translate to someone who runs half that).  So I'm not arguing, and don't feel hostility, just confusion.  I have limited time and resources to devote to running.  I want to be as efficient as possible in planning my runs, which, truth be told, are rather selfish and put a bit strain on my family.  Anyway, it's interesting to think about.  And it was entertaining to bring up on my morning run.  Folks thought y'all were insane. 

                       

                      Running 20 miles routinely is important for fast, experienced marathoners. I'm trying to get there in my training! But these are not 3 hour runs for fast, experienced folks.

                       

                      I wonder how you presented my ideas, if folks thought they were insane. My ideas are not radical or new--or mine! These are the ideas that I learned from a great college coach, and they are the ideas put into practice by Lydiard, Canova, Squires--some of the greats in the history of running.

                       

                      Finally, just imagine the strain you'd put on your family if you weren't running!

                      Scout7


                      CPT Curmudgeon

                        There is no right answer to be found on a message board.  It has been repeated over and over again...There is no magic bullet.

                         

                        The struggle is this disconnect.  People asking questions are looking for specific answers; those answering the questions already know there are no specific answers, so instead provide general advice.

                         

                        Should someone run 3 hour training runs?  I don't know, and no one else does either.  Are 20 milers required for completing a marathon?  Not for me, but maybe someone else feels they are.  What's the right answer?  That's for each of us to figure out.

                         

                        The answers to most of the questions that people ask can't be found on RA, or letsrun, or anywhere else.  They are found out on the roads and trails.

                         

                        Best advice that I can give anyone here is that you are going to get it wrong more often than not.  Accept that fact and try to get it right.


                        Prince of Fatness

                          I've run two marathons.  The first one I ran in just under 4 hours.  I think I ran a couple of training runs over 3 hours.  ~3:20 - 3:30 if I recall correctly.  The second one I ran 2 years later in 3:40.  The longest run was just under 3 hours and most long runs were around 2:30.  The big difference was I was running 10 more miles a week and had ran over 3500 miles between the races.

                           

                          I wouldn't change a thing with either race.  I think that going out longer than 3 hours is OK for the first marathon, at least it helped me mentally.  Physically I'm not so sure, hence what I did the second marathon.

                           

                          For me the deal breaker is recovery.  Running over 3 hours requires some recovery for me, and that comes at the expense of workouts in the days ahead.

                          Semi-retired.

                          C-R


                            I wanted to weigh in as a middle of the pack guy. I tend to agree with the Jeff's (and Lydiard, Canova, etc.) take on the long run time issue. 2.5 hours seems more than enough for me. Let me expand a bit.

                             

                            Originally I was of the opinion "I need to run 26 or 27 miles" prior to a marathon no matter what or "I need a 3.5 hour training run" as my peak. This was brought out by the likes of Galloway and that group. At the time, I needed the confidence to know 1) I could finish a marathon and 2) my legs needed the workout.

                             

                            Fast forward to today and for my marathons this year, I've gradually reduced my long run while still improving my times. Without any real statistical evidence and a sample size of one, it appears that gradually adding miles over the past two years, running frequently and consistently and sprinkling targeted workouts has started to show some results. For me, I don't think the long slog will be a part of my training as I will focus on time and getting quality vs. quantity. 16 miles with 10 or more at MP sounds more appealing than 3 hours just plugging along. And as I get faster, perhaps I can squeeze up to 20 in 2.5 hours.

                             

                            If you know you can finish a marathon and don't need the confidence boost, quality of workout seems to be the next logical stage. If you just enjoy being out there for 3-4 hour long runs, most excellent. Enjoy. But I don't think it necessarily will be the key to racing your fastest marathon.

                             

                            Full disclaimer - Jeff convinced me to race without a watch and that has been both fun and rewarding.


                            "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                            "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                            http://ncstake.blogspot.com/


                            i sacrificed the gift

                              My ideas are not radical or new--or mine! These are the ideas that I learned from a great college coach, and they are the ideas put into practice by Lydiard, Canova, Squires--some of the greats in the history of running.


                               

                               

                              Not sure who any of these people are, but as far as coaches go, the greats in running history are Galloway, Bingham, Higdon and whoever it was that wrote that "Run Less; Run Faster" book. 

                              Robot House Recovery Drink Protocol:
                              Under 70 Degrees: Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
                              Over 70 Degrees: Dougfish Head 60 Minute IPA


                              I'm noboby, who are you?

                                I like to do one every week. 

                                 

                                I did a few weeks in my last "training cycle" where I cut my long run back from 3+ to a little under 2:30, i think that helped me during the week.

                                 

                                Doing one every week may be too much and why you had to cut back to get you through the week. I'd try two on one off if you want to run longer. There are not many ,if any  training programs that suggest you run long every week in marathon training much less all year. 

                                 

                                There are hard easy also each long run. You seem to know your recovery bur you may want to up your game but approach  it gradually.