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Give Pfitz another shot or try Hansons? (Read 944 times)

mab411


Proboscis Colossus

    I trained for Dallas using Pfitz 18/70...the marathon didn't go well, though it was almost certainly due to bad race-day decisions, not the training itself.  I enjoyed the plan...I wanted more mileage and boy, I sure got it.  Toward the end I did start to feel pretty worn-down, which is to be expected, and I did experience a few waist-down aches and pains, which may not have been expected, but nothing serious.  About the only thing about the plan that I think might have had anything to do with the disastrous race day was the "taper..." if I do it again, I definitely think I'll back off more than Pfitzinger prescribes in the couple weeks leading up to the race.  And the only thing I didn't like about the rest of the plan was trying to do it during one of the busiest times in my work year...my fault, not Pfitz's.

     

    So anyway, it's about time to start getting ready for OKC at the end of April.  Part of me wants to do Pfitz again and race like I have a brain in my head, to get a good read on whether that type of training works for me, but the other part of me is highly interested in this Hansons business.  Hard to say if it's because they seem to be pretty successful coaches, or I'd like to spend just a little more time home with my wife, or just because it's the new & shiny thing that all the cool kids are doing.

     

    I know this question very much comes down to whatever I want to do, but what is the internet for, if not to bother random strangers for advice on my personal decisions?  So, does anyone have any input?  Probably going to go ahead and order that Hansons book anyway...no harm in reading it, even if I don't do any of the plans.

    "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

      ...or I'd like to spend just a little more time home with my wife, or just because it's the new & shiny thing that all the cool kids are doing.

       

      Does the Hansons plan actually prescribe less time spent running? That seems odd given the mileage load most of the successful Hansons runners put in.

       

      Anyway, I think its probably just the flavor of the week factor that's drawing you in.

      Runners run.

      mab411


      Proboscis Colossus

         

        Does the Hansons plan actually prescribe less time spent running? That seems odd given the mileage load most of the successful Hansons runners put in.

         

        Good question, I guess it just seems like what I've read about it implies that there is less mileage, but I haven't seen any numbers.  I know Guess I'll find out after UPS gets here on Friday (or I come across a thread talking about it on these forums).

        "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

           About the only thing about the plan that I think might have had anything to do with the disastrous race day was the "taper..." if I do it again, I definitely think I'll back off more than Pfitzinger prescribes in the couple weeks leading up to the race.  

           

          I've been reading Hansons Marathon Method for a few days (after reading bhearn's comparison thread of excellence).  It seemed like Hansons had less taper than Pfitz, but I haven't dusted of my Pfitz book to confirm.

           

          Chapter 5 of Hansons shows how to easily add miles without changing structure of the two pre-fab plans in the book.

           

          I enjoyed a PR years ago by somewhat following Pfit'z 18/70, though when I look back in my log, maybe 'somewhat followed' is generous.  I think the key to that success was running 18 at MP 5 weeks earlier (with an unintentional 8.2 mile cool down).  Hanson's plan seemed to have a substantial amount of MP miles peppered in -- which appeals to me based on that singular experience.

           

          I thoroughly enjoyed the comparison thread (above) enough to buy the Hansons book and am content to try for a PR this spring using Hansons.  If it doesn't work, I still own my 1st edition Pfitz for fallback in the fall.  I honestly think anyone at my level would do well following either plan -- so long as the plan was followed.

           

          In conclusion, I have no idea.  But I wish you well in training and in April.

          mab411


          Proboscis Colossus

             

             Hanson's plan seemed to have a substantial amount of MP miles peppered in...

             

            That's the other thing that kind of appeals to me - more MP mileage.  I mean, goodness knows, a lowly schlub like me doesn't have the physiology background to argue with either the Hansons or Pfitz whether more MP is better or worse...but I do know I like running faster, so there's that.

             

            MTA: Thanks for the well-wishes, and the link to bhearn's thread.  Answers a lot of questions, and pushes me a little further toward Hansons.

            "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

            Julia1971


              I think about trying something other than Pfitz but can never pull the trigger since I feel it's been successful for me, so I feel your pain.  A couple thoughts...

               

              I haven't read Hanson's.  (I'm waiting to see if they make it an e-book).  But, MP workouts leave me spent.  So, I don't know if I would try it based on the emphasis on MP runs.  Instead of time with family and friends, I think I'd be spending more time on the couch or in traction.  I also like to race and from what I understand, they don't include races (but you can add them?)  I would have to add them because without them, marathon training begins to get pretty boring for me.  And, if I'm adding them, then I'm making my own plan...  You could also just modify Pfitz.  As loyal to his plans as I've been, I am modifying it this time around.  I'm cutting down the long runs by a mile or two, exchanging cruise intervals for some of the tempos, and generally running everything (except recovery runs) a little faster than I have in the past.  It'll be interesting to see how it works out.  But, yeah, I think you just have to decide for yourself.

              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                 I guess it just seems like what I've read about it implies that there is less mileage, but I haven't seen any numbers. 

                The book suggests less running in that they have an "advanced" training plan that tops off in the 60mpw range. But, it seems like 80-100 mpw would be a min. if you want to "Do Hansons". Im glad I have the book. But, its pretty light and fluffy.

                Dont call it a comeback

                  The book suggests less running in that they have an "advanced" training plan that tops off in the 60mpw range. But, it seems like 80-100 mpw would be a min. if you want to "Do Hansons". Im glad I have the book. But, its pretty light and fluffy.

                   

                  I'm following the Hansons' 20 week 40 - 60 week plan, purchased from their site.  I bumped my mileage a bit over the plan by doing an easy 4 miles on the treadmill on Wednesdays instead of taking the day off.  This will end up giving me mid 60 weeks.  I'm currently in week 10.  This morning's workout was 2wu+6@MP+2cd.

                   

                  I am trying to follow the plan pretty exactly, with the exception of a 5k that I'll stick in at the end of week 13 and a 10k that I'll put at the end of week 19.  So far my speed and endurance seem to be improving quite well.

                    I bought the book, and actually bought the 85-105 training plan from the website.  The plan is not exactly following the Hanson plan, but is pretty close.

                     

                    I'll be running more miles that I ever did on any Pfitz plan.

                    I'll still be running several 20-22 milers.

                     

                    So time spent running is all relative.  Yes, if you follow the stock Hanson beginner or advance program from the book, it will likely be less than anything in Pfitz, but that's just the starting point.  You add in miles as you see fit, and typically the more the better!

                     

                    As for the 16 mile long run, that is dependent on your weekly mileage and pace.  Their whole point is not to exceed 2:30 - 3:00, or 25%-30% weekly total.  For many runners, 16 miles fits the criteria nicely.  As you bump up your mileage and pace, you end up right back at the 20-22 mile long run.

                     

                    But I say give it a go!  I think anything you can do to keep you motivated and running is good.  And don't get too hung up running the plan to the letter.  No running police will hunt you down if you add in a race, or change a workout around. Smile

                    jedigunnie26.2


                    BQ in 2013

                      I bought the book, and actually bought the 85-105 training plan from the website.  The plan is not exactly following the Hanson plan, but is pretty close.

                       

                      I'll be running more miles that I ever did on any Pfitz plan.

                      I'll still be running several 20-22 milers.

                       

                      So time spent running is all relative.  Yes, if you follow the stock Hanson beginner or advance program from the book, it will likely be less than anything in Pfitz, but that's just the starting point.  You add in miles as you see fit, and typically the more the better!

                       

                      As for the 16 mile long run, that is dependent on your weekly mileage and pace.  Their whole point is not to exceed 2:30 - 3:00, or 25%-30% weekly total.  For many runners, 16 miles fits the criteria nicely.  As you bump up your mileage and pace, you end up right back at the 20-22 mile long run.

                       

                      But I say give it a go!  I think anything you can do to keep you motivated and running is good.  And don't get too hung up running the plan to the letter.  No running police will hunt you down if you add in a race, or change a workout around. Smile

                      ^This

                       

                      I got book for Christmas and the 25-30% LR philosophy totally makes sense based on what mileage you're running. About halfway thru book and pretty sure I will do advanced plan in book for my fall marathon.

                      PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                       

                      2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                       

                      2013

                      Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                      Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                      Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                       

                      Up Next:

                      Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                      RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                      Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

                        But, MP workouts leave me spent.  So, I don't know if I would try it based on the emphasis on MP runs.

                        Are you running them at your goal-MP or your current-MP?  Just curious, as you seem to have great endurance (better than mine, anyway), and I find MP workouts to not be overly taxing.

                        “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


                        I'm back!

                          I always find Pfitz's MP runs (at goal MP, or as close to it as I can manage) to be challenging. The way they are structured in Hansons, they will be less so, I expect. I'm just about to head out for my first one. But because I'm trying for a big PR, this should feel more like a Pfitz LT run. Also hard.

                            The book reads like a marketing gimmick to get you to buy a real plan from their website. The advanced plan in the book is so devoid of substance that I would be more inclined to buy a plan, get a real coach or create my own "Hansons" plan. There are a few people on here with open logs that use Hansons ideas with their training, it wouldnt be that hard to incorporate that into your own schedule. Even better might be actually spending time training for a 5 or 10k, that would pay off for a fall marathon.

                            Dont call it a comeback

                            Julia1971


                              Are you running them at your goal-MP or your current-MP?  Just curious, as you seem to have great endurance (better than mine, anyway), and I find MP workouts to not be overly taxing.

                               

                               

                              I try to hit goal marathon pace. But, that's a bit of a mystery since my last two training cycles didn't let me see how close or off my goal was so I could be over-reaching. I have trouble hitting HM pace in training, too, though. I have a feeling something psychological is going on. That I don't trust the pace and give up on it rather than blow up.

                               

                              Edited so that the last sentence makes more sense.

                              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                                I just did my first MP run today too.  3 warm up, 8 GMP, 3 cool down.  I'm trying to knock another 10 seconds per mile off my pace from my most recent marathon.  On paper it didn't look too bad, but in reality it was pretty tough this morning.  I kept having to remind myself that this should feel comfortable.  Angry  I try not to worry about it too much though, because MP always feels hard when in the middle of training.

                                 

                                I always find Pfitz's MP runs (at goal MP, or as close to it as I can manage) to be challenging. The way they are structured in Hansons, they will be less so, I expect. I'm just about to head out for my first one. But because I'm trying for a big PR, this should feel more like a Pfitz LT run. Also hard.

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