Flu shot heresy (Read 2152 times)


Needs more cowbell!

     

    People have a poor memory for history -- the immediacy effect.  Honestly I think people are really only concerned with remembering a year into the past and thinking a year into the future.    As a society (and not just the US) we become increasingly complacent as time removes us from an event/condition.  This is one reason why "history repeats itself", because we don't learn very well from it in the long term.

     

    This is a prime example.  Those old enough to remember iron lungs and the horror of polio would never think of skipping the vaccine, but the parents of today have no recollection or understanding.

     

    All people need to do is a Google image search for polio for a harsh dose of reality.  Anyone who could look at those images and choose not to vax needs to have their sanity questioned.  As a child I knew a couple of older folks who had suffered with polio all of their lives.  Those aren't experiences a person forgets when they have kids of their own.

    I shoot pretty things! ~

    '14 Goals:

    • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

    • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


    Hey, nice marmot!

      This thread is beginning to confuse me.

       

      So, you have two sets of parents.  Parent A gets child A vaccinated against polio so the kid won't get polio.  That seems good for that kid, since it seems to be in the kid's best interest not to get polio.

       

      Parent B chooses not to vaccinate child B against polio, potentially putting child B at risk of contracting polio at some point in time.  Parent B's actions imply a belief that the risks of the polio vaccine outweigh the risks of actually contracting polio.

       

      Here's where I get lost.  Parent A is angry at Parent B for choosing not to vaccinate.  Why is that?  I mean, child A is vaccinated, so even if child B gets polio (sucks for child B), isn't child A protected from the disease?  I'm not seeing how Parent B's actions are directly effecting Parent A or child A.  (Of course I realize there are broader social implications, but it seems Parent A is responding to a kind of personal attack.)

       

      Ben

       

      "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens

      MrH



         

        Here's where I get lost. 

         

         

        If child A was immunized before leaving the womb, you'd be correct. But until they get their full does and protection they are at risk as a result of others who are not immunized carrying the virus.

         

        I think.

        The process is the goal.

        Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.


        Giant Flaming Dork

          This thread is beginning to confuse me.

           

          So, you have two sets of parents.  Parent A gets child A vaccinated against polio so the kid won't get polio.  That seems good for that kid, since it seems to be in the kid's best interest not to get polio.

           

          Parent B chooses not to vaccinate child B against polio, potentially putting child B at risk of contracting polio at some point in time.  Parent B's actions imply a belief that the risks of the polio vaccine outweigh the risks of actually contracting polio.

           

          Here's where I get lost.  Parent A is angry at Parent B for choosing not to vaccinate.  Why is that?  I mean, child A is vaccinated, so even if child B gets polio (sucks for child B), isn't child A protected from the disease?  I'm not seeing how Parent B's actions are directly effecting Parent A or child A.  (Of course I realize there are broader social implications, but it seems Parent A is responding to a kind of personal attack.)

           

           

           

          This is why:

           

           

          Anyway, one of the strange things about vaccines is that in a very small percentage of people, the vaccine doesn't "take".  They get the vaccine, but for whatever reason they don't develop the immunity to the virus.  If a great majority of the population get the vaccine, these people are safe.  If the vaccination rate is less than that, these people could get infected. 

           

           

           


           

          My reason for mentioning that some vaccines don't "take" is to show that as a community, if we don't take steps to limit the amount of infection that occurs, we endanger the community at large.  Some of the people I know that don't vaccinate say that they aren't hurting anyone if they don't vaccinate.  However, they don't realize that there are ramifications outside their family that can affect others.  And in some cases, very significantly.

           


           

          it is not a common practice to verify whether a vaccine "elicits an immune response" (or "takes"), because the occurrence of this is low.  However it would Really SuckTM if you were Parent A and your kid got sick because there was a big outbreak in your community from lack of vaccinations and your child's vaccine didn't work.

           

          This is why I get riled up.  Other parents may not.

           

          There is also the costs of treating non-vaccinated children that are borne by the community.  For some reason, this doesn't bother me much.

           

          MTA:  I cant splell

          http://xkcd.com/621/


          Hey, nice marmot!

            it is not a common practice to verify whether a vaccine "elicits an immune response" (or "takes"), because the occurrence of this is low. 

             

             

            Thanks girmann.  That makes sense.  I wonder, is it particularly expensive to verify if a vaccine "takes"?  I mean, the occurence is low, but wouldn't you want to know if you're part of the <insert percentage here> of people where the vaccine doesn't "take".  I think it would also suck to walk around thinking you're protected from some disease when you're really not.

            Ben

             

            "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens


            Giant Flaming Dork

               

               

              Thanks girmann.  That makes sense.  I wonder, is it particularly expensive to verify if a vaccine "takes"?  I mean, the occurence is low, but wouldn't you want to know if you're part of the <insert percentage here> of people where the vaccine doesn't "take".  I think it would also suck to walk around thinking you're protected from some disease when you're really not.

               To be honest, I don't know.  I do know that they did it for my wife before and after they gave her the chicken pox vaccine.  She is an odd case, as she has never had it (to her knowledge), and didn't have an immune response to it either before or after getting the vaccine.  So I know that it's possible to do for at least the chicken pox virus; but as to the costs or whether they could do that for all vaccines, I'm not sure.

              http://xkcd.com/621/

                  I think it would also suck to walk around thinking you're protected from some disease when you're really not.

                 yeah, but what could you do differently if you knew, other than continue the basic hygiene you would practice anyway? its not like you really know who around you has it and can expose you to it.


                Hey, nice marmot!

                   yeah, but what could you do differently if you knew,

                   

                   

                  Well, I'd stop spending Saturday nights at Club Polio, that's for sure!

                   

                  I was thinking more along the lines of medical people.  If you're a nurse and patient X is in room 100 with polio and you know you're not protected, you could have someone else work on him.

                  Ben

                   

                  "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens


                  Mitch & Pete's Mom

                     

                    Not "may". We HAVE seen more diseases.  This is just one of many many examples.  The year before, there was a large measles outbreak in San Diego.  Just another example.

                     

                    Here is the link to the outbreak in San Diego. It might also help answer the question as to why parents who do vaccinate kinda freak out.  measles. The school where the first child became ill was one I considered for my son, I liked that fact that they were a little crunchy and alternative minded.  

                     

                    I thought this was an interesting article too Parents.

                     

                    And for the record I did alter my sons' vaccination schedules to please my husband because he was worried about Autism.

                    Carlsbad 1/2 marathon 1/26.


                    Feeling the growl again

                       

                       

                      Thanks girmann.  That makes sense.  I wonder, is it particularly expensive to verify if a vaccine "takes"?  I mean, the occurence is low, but wouldn't you want to know if you're part of the <insert percentage here> of people where the vaccine doesn't "take".  I think it would also suck to walk around thinking you're protected from some disease when you're really not.

                       

                      You can check antibody titers.  It is not expensive (comparatively, this IS medical care after all).  I do not know which or how many diseases they can do this for but the layman's explanation is that it gives you an idea of the likelihood your immune system will give you enough protection in the event of an exposure.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       


                      A Dance with Monkeys

                        Population-based infectious disease control is achieved via two methods.

                        1. Protect individuals directly using vaccination and risk reduction strategies
                        2. Reduce the overall burden of the disease, which reduces exposure

                        Neither approach is perfect, but when used together, disease control can be nearly complete.  Methods for 1 include vaccination (e.g., influenza, polio, measles) or condoms (HIV, chlamydia), for example.  As the burden of the disease goes down, people are less likely to be exposed to the disease, so failures of method 1 are less likely to lead to new infections.  If nobody has HIV, you cannot contract HIV if the condom breaks.  If everybody has HIV, your chances of contracting HIV go up, even if the condom appears to have remained intact.

                         

                        Likewise, if measles is eradicated, the few people with vaccine failure will not get sick.  But if it resurfaces then those with vaccine failure will get sick.

                         

                        Combining #1 and #2 is really what "herd immunity" is about.


                        Mitch & Pete's Mom

                           

                          You can check antibody titers.  It is not expensive (comparatively, this IS medical care after all).  I do not know which or how many diseases they can do this for but the layman's explanation is that it gives you an idea of the likelihood your immune system will give you enough protection in the event of an exposure.

                           

                           

                          So, I could have this done for Chicken Pox? I was purposely exposed once as a child, baby sat for kids who were feverish and grumpy but did not have the "pox dots"  until the next morning and yet I have never had them, or at least I've never shown the classic symptoms. I freaked a little when I was preggo with my 2nd and the preschool my son was at had an outbreak. It doesn't keep me up at night but it might be nice to know.

                          Carlsbad 1/2 marathon 1/26.


                          Needs more cowbell!

                             

                             

                            So, I could have this done for Chicken Pox? I was purposely exposed once as a child, baby sat for kids who were feverish and grumpy but did not have the "pox dots"  until the next morning and yet I have never had them, or at least I've never show the classic symptoms. I freaked a little when I was preggo with my 2nd and the preschool my son was at had an outbreak. It doesn't keep me up at night but it might be nice to know.

                             

                             

                            I had really mild chicken pox as a preschooler.  Didn't get it again when either of my siblings had pox (and my brother had it bad...has lots of scars).  A couple of years ago I had mild shingles (incidentally, about a year after my brother had shingles, too).  I've wondered if this will make me safe from getting shingles again.  I have had no long-term effects from it, but I also got antivirals within a day or two of symptoms starting.


                            Medical folks, is it likely I will still need the shingles vax when I'm of the appropriate age?  Also, why do they only give the shingles vax to older adults when younger adults do develop the condition, even if relatively rare?

                            I shoot pretty things! ~

                            '14 Goals:

                            • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                              My grandmother got shingles multiple times.  It would flare up every few years.

                               

                              It's probably one of those things not considered cost-effective to vaccinate younger people for shingles, since they DON'T get it too often.


                              Feeling the growl again

                                 

                                 

                                So, I could have this done for Chicken Pox? I was purposely exposed once as a child, baby sat for kids who were feverish and grumpy but did not have the "pox dots"  until the next morning and yet I have never had them, or at least I've never shown the classic symptoms. I freaked a little when I was preggo with my 2nd and the preschool my son was at had an outbreak. It doesn't keep me up at night but it might be nice to know.

                                 

                                I THINK so.  I'd ask a real doc.  Which I'm not.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand