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Average training pace. (Read 1562 times)

Lane


      Slowing way down on easy runs, and running a lot more easy miles, was what did it. If I worried about running faster - on average - in training, I'd probably be a lot slower in races.
      It is difficult to understand this concept, many people repeat it. If running slower is the real answer than why don't good runners run at 12mm pace in training. If they want to race faster why not after a few months of 12mm training pace, do they not then gear it down to a 13mm pace?

      "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius


      A Saucy Wench

        It is difficult to understand this concept, many people repeat it. If running slower is the real answer than why don't good runners run at 12mm pace in training. If they want to race faster why not after a few months of 12mm training pace, do they not then gear it down to a 13mm pace?
        Its not about running slower and slower and slower. Its about running at the right pace for your current body and cardiovascular system to provide the most benefit overall. The fitter you get the faster that will still be, but it is slower than 99.9% of runners want to run when they first start. The objective of these runs is to build blood volume and to increase muscle strength, endurance, and aerobic fitness. It allows you to build a strong mileage base with minimal stress on joints and connective tissue. It helps your body learn to burn fat as fuel at higher efforts leaving glycogen burning for race efforts. And it leaves you fresh enough that when you DO go to race or do speedwork you have more to give and can take advantage of that. 2 years ago I did my long runs at a 9:30 pace and I raced 10K's at a 9:15 pace. Since then I slowed down my long runs to about 10:30 and last year did 10K's at a 8:45 pace. Since then my 10K pace has dropped to ~ 7:50 and my long runs are aroun 10mm

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        mikeymike


          It is difficult to understand this concept, many people repeat it. If running slower is the real answer than why don't good runners run at 12mm pace in training. If they want to race faster why not after a few months of 12mm training pace, do they not then gear it down to a 13mm pace?
          It's not running slower that's most important it's running more, get it? Read the second part of the sentence you quoted from JK, not just the first part. Running slower is what allows the body to handle more. Most people run too fast on their easy days when they're starting out and they think they can't run any more mileage because they're always banged up from running too fast on their easy days. You need to slow down to increase the volume, especially when you're getting used to new mileage highs for the first time. The fact is good runners do run very slowly on their easy days--much slower than most newbies when compared to their race times.

          Runners run

            It's not running slower that's most important it's running more The fact is good runners do run very slowly on their easy days--much slower than most newbies when compared to their race times.
            The question still is why not run even slower and run further. Get it!

            "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

              Its not about running slower and slower and slower. Its about running at the right pace for your current body and cardiovascular system to provide the most benefit overall. The fitter you get the faster that will still be, but it is slower than 99.9% of runners want to run when they first start. The objective of these runs is to build blood volume and to increase muscle strength, endurance, and aerobic fitness. It allows you to build a strong mileage base with minimal stress on joints and connective tissue. It helps your body learn to burn fat as fuel at higher efforts leaving glycogen burning for race efforts. And it leaves you fresh enough that when you DO go to race or do speedwork you have more to give and can take advantage of that. 2 years ago I did my long runs at a 9:30 pace and I raced 10K's at a 9:15 pace. Since then I slowed down my long runs to about 10:30 and last year did 10K's at a 8:45 pace. Since then my 10K pace has dropped to ~ 7:50 and my long runs are aroun 10mm
              I understand that. It would follow that as the months went by, a newbie's training pace would get faster. As many have said "It doesn't get easier, you just get quicker. Same effort but a new runner will see a quicker pace only makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is don't be too concerned with training pace - It means nothing. Well I still think training pace does matter.

              "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

              mikeymike


                The question still is why not run even slower and run further. Get it!
                That's not what you asked. There are obviously diminishing returns of more and more mileage and there is a physical as well as practical limit that is different for everyone. Most elite marathoners running 140 miles per week would not do better on 170 miles per week, if anything they would break down and do much worse. But most people running 30 mpw would do significantly better on 60 mpw.

                Runners run

                  That's not what you asked. There are obviously diminishing returns of more and more mileage and there is a physical as well as practical limit that is different for everyone. Most elite marathoners running 140 miles per week would not do better on 170 miles per week, if anything they would break down and do much worse. But most people running 30 mpw would do significantly better on 60 mpw.
                  Now that makes sense to me and now I get it - Thanks

                  "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

                  jEfFgObLuE


                  I've got a fever...

                    Although it's not necessarily a good idea for newer runners to get too caught up in the technicalities, it's not a bad idea to consult a running calculator such as McMillan's or Jack Daniels' VDOT, if only to get a guideline for easy pace. As it's been said, a lot of newer runners run too fast everyday relative to their race pace. These running calculators use a recent race time to calculate training paces. Easy pace on most calculators starts 1:15~1:45/mile slower than 10k race pace. Slower running = more miles More miles = faster racing Don't worry about trying to improve your average everyday pace. It will naturally get faster as you run more, but it's not a goal unto itself. One more thing: Backstretch was asking about running slower and slower. There is a diminishing return there -- as mikey said, at a certain point, more miles won't help. But also, if you run so slow as to unnaturally alter your mechanics, this can result in injury as well.

                    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                    jEfFgObLuE


                    I've got a fever...

                      you mean "you are a little faster than me"..... way to confuse your grammar fool. "I" is a nominative pronoun.
                      If you want to discuss these kind of matters, I recommend http://www.grammarahead.com/forums. Your critiques will be much more welcome there.

                      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                      Lane


                        If you want to discuss these kind of matters, I recommend http://www.grammarahead.com/forums. Your critiques will be much more welcome there.
                        Thank you. I found the conversations there to be most enlightening on the topic of demonstrative pronouns and split infinitives.
                        runnerclay


                        Consistently Slow

                          Want Speed? Slow Down www.rrca.org Article on slower running. Remember everyone has an opinion. Do a search under articles.

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                           SCHEDULE 2016--

                           The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

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                          JimR


                            That's not what you asked. There are obviously diminishing returns of more and more mileage and there is a physical as well as practical limit that is different for everyone. Most elite marathoners running 140 miles per week would not do better on 170 miles per week, if anything they would break down and do much worse. But most people running 30 mpw would do significantly better on 60 mpw.
                            I'll add that a lot of people that try to increase mileage try to do it at the same pace they're at, and end up injured. The idea is to add more volume but slow it down enough that you can handle it. When in doubt, run it slower than you think you should. I'm still working on the increase. I've managed about a 50ish average for the last couple of months but the bigger weeks have been pretty easy to accomodate, lots of runs in the 10m/m range in there.
                              Just to wrap this up: I am increasing my weekly miles, I am running slower; the heat is definitely part of the reason I am running slower. Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.

                              PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                                                  10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

                               

                              Scout7


                                My thoughts: A) You need to run at 180 cadence. No more, no less. B) You need more garlic. C) You need to somehow incorporate a 5 course meal into you long runs. D) Running skirts. Look into 'em. E) Chia running will help you immensely. I will gladly enroll you in an online course for the low low price of $500.
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