RunningAHEAD - Topic: Is it all just a marketing Sham? (page 4)

Daddyo

Go Pre!

posted: 8/11/2008 at 4:14 PM

Quote from backstretch on 8/11/2008 at 4:01 PM:

LOL- Why not I'm already in the Scotia Bank Toronto Waterfront Marathon September 28th I'll just do the three week taper again and then run the Toronto Marathon October 19th. I was thinking about doing both anyway

I am doing both too Pat...Scotia as my last long run at an easy pace with little or no supplements, and Toronto as a PR attempt, and 2 weeks after that, Hamilton....at whatever pace I think I can manage with whatever supplements I think I may need. This fall should be fun!

https://twitter.com/BeachesRunner

backstretch

posted: 8/11/2008 at 4:28 PM

Cool Daddyo - I just registered, I'm in (Saved 15 bucks by registering before Sept 1st. I'll post my bib number for Saturdays 30Km race in the GTA group, see you there. Alot of races the next 2 months Smile

"The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

kcam

posted: 8/11/2008 at 4:34 PM

From Trent's excellent post: "The human body can contain a maximum of about 2000 kCal of stored glycogen. Glycogen is the energy source we use when we run." This 2000kCal Max of stored glycogen - is this documented fact? What controls the maximum amount of stored glycogen in our bodies? How much of a range exists around the 2000 kCal Max? Does distance training increase this Max? Just wondering. Maybe Nokes' book has the answers?

JakeKnight

posted: 8/11/2008 at 5:17 PM

Quote from kcam on 8/11/2008 at 4:34 PM:

From Trent's excellent post: "The human body can contain a maximum of about 2000 kCal of stored glycogen. Glycogen is the energy source we use when we run." This 2000kCal Max of stored glycogen - is this documented fact? What controls the maximum amount of stored glycogen in our bodies? How much of a range exists around the 2000 kCal Max? Does distance training increase this Max? Just wondering. Maybe Nokes' book has the answers?

http://www.marathonandbeyond.com/choices/latta.htm Dick Beardsley's experience in his second marathon is ... illustrative.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

backstretch

posted: 8/11/2008 at 5:56 PM

Quote from JakeKnight on 8/11/2008 at 5:17 PM:

http://www.marathonandbeyond.com/choices/latta.htm Dick Beardsley's experience in his second marathon is ... illustrative.

Good article Jake, Thanks The reason I may have not felt any different on the two times I tried Gu and Gels is that they were all just taken around mile 18. Upon reading the directions it says to start 15 minutes before and continue to take one every 30 to 45 minutes throughout the execise time period. Which means I should have taken at least 6, maybe then I would have felt different. Although I don't know why I didn't at least get the "Sugar rush". .Well upon reading the back only 2 grams of sugar on the gu but wait 10 grams on the gel, oh well no sugar rush was had and the gummie bears would have been just loaded with that.

"The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

jpnairn

straw man

posted: 8/11/2008 at 6:04 PM

I recall reading an article somewhere with a title like, "It's a Race, Not a Banquet" but i can't find it anywhere any more. Does anyone else remember this? Anyway, I've spent so much time running into the wall, it has a dent shaped like my face. The wall and I are so familiar, if I don't show up for a while, the wall calls me to see how I'm doing. Yes, Pat, there is a wall.

He who has the best time wins. Jerry

backstretch

posted: 8/11/2008 at 6:11 PM

Quote from jpnairn on 8/11/2008 at 6:04 PM:

Anyway, I've spent so much time running into the wall, it has a dent shaped like my face. The wall and I are so familiar, if I don't show up for a while, the wall calls me to see how I'm doing. Yes, Pat, there is a wall.

LMAO - Too Funny; Thanks!

"The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

dnephin

posted: 8/11/2008 at 7:39 PM

Quote from backstretch on 8/11/2008 at 5:56 PM:

The reason I may have not felt any different on the two times I tried Gu and Gels is that they were all just taken around mile 18. Upon reading the directions it says to start 15 minutes before and continue to take one every 30 to 45 minutes throughout the execise time period. Which means I should have taken at least 6, maybe then I would have felt different.

There's where the marketing may come in, as in buy our product! I'd say, you have to experiment. I'd NEVER take that many. (Of course, I'm also not a wash, rinse, repeat guy.) If I did, I'm sure I'd feel different. I may not be running, but I may have the runs.

DWARP
Marathon Madness Mob

kcam

posted: 8/12/2008 at 1:59 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 8/11/2008 at 5:17 PM:

http://www.marathonandbeyond.com/choices/latta.htm Dick Beardsley's experience in his second marathon is ... illustrative.

From the article - Martin also points out that nonworking muscles cannot transfer their glycogen reserves to working muscles; once glucose is inside a muscle cell, that’s where it stays until it’s metabolized. “This might be one reason why many marathon runners prefer a race course with periodic, slight elevation changes,” he says. “This allows the glycogen reserves to be shared among a larger group of working muscles.” Runners who are racing on a very flat course might consider occasionally varying their pace or stride length to mobilize unused glycogen stores. Hmm, I've always felt I run better on marathon courses that have some minimal hilliness to them as opposed to the 'flat fast' courses - maybe this is why. Thanks for the link.

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 8/12/2008 at 11:15 AM

Quote from kcam on 8/11/2008 at 4:34 PM:

This 2000kCal Max of stored glycogen - is this documented fact? What controls the maximum amount of stored glycogen in our bodies? How much of a range exists around the 2000 kCal Max? Does distance training increase this Max?

Apparently, this is fairly well hard wired and does not vary much with adult size. Training alters how you use the glycogen and teaches your body to use it more efficiently at a given pace, but it does not increase what you have. The controls for glycogen are unclear and may relate to the number of glycogen storing cells you have (muscle and liver) which remain fairly constant.

Quote from kcam on 8/11/2008 at 4:34 PM:

Maybe Nokes' book has the answers?

Yep

Quote from kcam on 8/12/2008 at 1:59 AM:

Martin also points out that nonworking muscles cannot transfer their glycogen reserves to working muscles; once glucose is inside a muscle cell, that’s where it stays until it’s metabolized. “This might be one reason why many marathon runners prefer a race course with periodic, slight elevation changes,” he says. “This allows the glycogen reserves to be shared among a larger group of working muscles.” Runners who are racing on a very flat course might consider occasionally varying their pace or stride length to mobilize unused glycogen stores.

I'm not sure this is correct AND the liver is a major source of glucose during exertion. I think glucose and glycogen are more fungible than this. The reason undulating courses are better, I think, has to do with distributing the simple wear and tear of the distance.

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

kcam

posted: 8/12/2008 at 12:46 PM
modified: 8/12/2008 at 12:47 PM

Quote from Trent on 8/12/2008 at 11:15 AM:

I'm not sure this is correct AND the liver is a major source of glucose during exertion. I think glucose and glycogen are more fungible than this. The reason undulating courses are better, I think, has to do with distributing the simple wear and tear of the distance.

Fungible?! Very nice! Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls! Learned a new word today. So the number of glycogen storing cells can't be increased or decreased - kind of like what I've heard about fat cells? You can just fill them up or deplete them and you can modify the way those stores are used by training. I'll dust off my copy of Nokes and read up a little more. I haven't even opened that book for about 13 years. Now that I'm ramping up my training I need to go back and re-read. As far as the hilly vs flat courses, I've always thougt I just got plum wore out, mentally as well as physically, from trying to run the EXACT same pace in the EXACT same way for 26.2 miles. The elites don't seem to have this problem very much - they run faster on the flat courses.

Minderbender

posted: 8/12/2008 at 3:16 PM

All this talk about fueling has me worried that I will run out of fuel for my first marathon. Anybody know if they make fuel belts with slots for quarter pounders with cheese? Smile

backstretch

posted: 8/12/2008 at 3:55 PM

Quote from Minderbender on 8/12/2008 at 3:16 PM:

All this talk about fueling has me worried that I will run out of fuel for my first marathon. Anybody know if they make fuel belts with slots for quarter pounders with cheese?

Contact McDonalds suggest they sponsor a race. I can just see running through the golden arches picking up a burger

"The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

Anzura

posted: 8/12/2008 at 8:13 PM
modified: 8/12/2008 at 8:13 PM

Here's a study you all might find interesting. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/1/120

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 8/12/2008 at 10:11 PM

Interesting findings, but this is a small study that evaluated vigilance among people who were essentially hiking. Most runners don't give a hoot about vigilance. They are more interested in speed and consistency in their races. Vigilance, in fact, may distract from that.

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

Is it all just a marketing Sham? (Read 1698 times)