RunningAHEAD - Topic: First marathon training question: confused

posted: 11/14/2008 at 11:23 PM

I'm in week five of my training program using the coolrunning beginners program (my log is on buck eye though). For the past couple weeks Tuesday has been my speed-training day but I am beginning to wonder if I would be better served by just running and having a longer day mid week run. My legs and joints still feel like they are adjusting to running and I am afraid speed training may cause me problems. But more importantly, wouldn't just running more mileage at this point give me better improvement than doing speed training this early in my running (I started running in March). I don't want to run my first super slow so I'm not in the "just finish camp" but at the same time, I expect to be middle of the pack and would be happy to finish without the ambulance following me through the finish line. It just seems like I am too slow for speed training to even matter yet. I'm also wondering if maybe just doing longer midweek runs without speedtraining until maybe January and then doing the speedtraining just the last month or so would work as well.

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

Chris_So_Cal

posted: 11/14/2008 at 11:54 PM

How many miles per week are you doing and how long have you been running? I have been told not to do speed work till I was doing 30-35 miles per week and been running for at least a year. I would think that with your first marathon the most important thing you could do would be volume. Just get in as many miles as you possibly can. If you feel the need for speed just add a few striders in during the week sometime.

quotidianlight

posted: 11/15/2008 at 12:09 AM

Quote from Chris_So_Cal on 11/14/2008 at 11:54 PM:

How many miles per week are you doing and how long have you been running? I have been told not to do speed work till I was doing 30-35 miles per week and been running for at least a year. I would think that with your first marathon the most important thing you could do would be volume. Just get in as many miles as you possibly can. If you feel the need for speed just add a few striders in during the week sometime.

I wont cross over to 30 miles until next week but I find it odd that the beginner program has speed training beginning in the third week. It just seems useless, unnecessary and possibly dangerous for the miles ran. Toward the end of the program it makes more sense to me. I heard just running more volume will make you run faster. How true is this or does it work better for people who have been running longer?

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

Ennay

A Saucy Wench

posted: 11/15/2008 at 1:41 AM

Personally I vote for the run longer and do minimal speedwork. Especially if you are feeling it in your legs and joints. Speed training has value regardless of your speed, it is all relative. But if your goal is to finish healthy and strong miles>speedwork. I definitely see room for me to improve with more disciplined speedwork but I've come a long way on minimal speedwork. And I cut it out entirely if I feel that my legs are telling me something.

I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

"When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

Phidippides

posted: 11/15/2008 at 8:09 AM
modified: 11/15/2008 at 8:20 AM

Speed work and interval training is among the most common questions in this web site. Most of the running guru's will tell you to work up your mileage before you do speed work. Most of the really good RA runners recommend more like 30 to 40 MPW for 5 or 6 months before you consider speed work (and many recommend even more miles for a greater duration before thining about intervals). Its more important to get in your miles first.....i know that I was doing some speed work and ran a 5K race a few months ago. PROBLEM - i ran fast enough at first but pooped out during the last mile. So on the advice of a running guru and Running ahead, i discontinued speed work to increase my MPW to 30 to 40 (just got there) and will continue speed work in a few months after I have adjusted to the increased miles. The idea is to build the endurane first and then follow up with the speed...thus build miles, then run faster. The further your race, the more important the distance. Im training for 5k and 5 Mile and was told to get the miles up in the 30's before doing speed work. SO for a first marathon, distance is way more important.......so I think you may want to ditch it for now and focus on long slow miles (and lots of them)... Smile

Champions are made when no one is watching

quotidianlight

posted: 11/15/2008 at 11:56 AM

Quote from Phidippides on 11/15/2008 at 8:09 AM:

Speed work and interval training is among the most common questions in this web site. Most of the running guru's will tell you to work up your mileage before you do speed work. Most of the really good RA runners recommend more like 30 to 40 MPW for 5 or 6 months before you consider speed work (and many recommend even more miles for a greater duration before thining about intervals). Its more important to get in your miles first.....i know that I was doing some speed work and ran a 5K race a few months ago. PROBLEM - i ran fast enough at first but pooped out during the last mile. So on the advice of a running guru and Running ahead, i discontinued speed work to increase my MPW to 30 to 40 (just got there) and will continue speed work in a few months after I have adjusted to the increased miles. The idea is to build the endurane first and then follow up with the speed...thus build miles, then run faster. The further your race, the more important the distance. Im training for 5k and 5 Mile and was told to get the miles up in the 30's before doing speed work. SO for a first marathon, distance is way more important.......so I think you may want to ditch it for now and focus on long slow miles (and lots of them)...

Thank you, I am going to ditch it. I wonder why the coolrunning program has people running 20mpw doing speed training. I wish I had known more about training when I was picking a program *crosses her fingers*

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

zedlepp

posted: 11/15/2008 at 2:29 PM

just out of curiosity, what is the nature of speedwork on this program?

theyapper

On the road again...

posted: 11/15/2008 at 3:31 PM

Interesting that you asked this. I was about to post something similar. You adn I started running close to the same time (you in March, me in April) and the half marathon plan I'm following calls for intervals and tempos and pace runs. I have noticed a DECREASE in my endurance on longer runs even though I have gotten faster on 5k and 10k distances. I'm considering ditching everything and converting all runs to easy and long. Glad to see I may not be alone in my experience.

I write. I read. I run. One time, I ran a lot on my 50th birthday.

Paul

quotidianlight

posted: 11/15/2008 at 4:22 PM

Quote from zedlepp on 11/15/2008 at 2:29 PM:

just out of curiosity, what is the nature of speedwork on this program?

Intervals, hills, tempos etc once a week. It just seems a bit much for a beginners program.

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

quotidianlight

posted: 11/15/2008 at 4:24 PM

Quote from theyapper on 11/15/2008 at 3:31 PM:

Interesting that you asked this. I was about to post something similar. You adn I started running close to the same time (you in March, me in April) and the half marathon plan I'm following calls for intervals and tempos and pace runs. I have noticed a DECREASE in my endurance on longer runs even though I have gotten faster on 5k and 10k distances. I'm considering ditching everything and converting all runs to easy and long. Glad to see I may not be alone in my experience.

My legs started feeling like lead and I noticed my joints pop and click a lot more for several days after speed training. Maybe by my second marathon training program I'll be ready but this board is always talking about listening to your body, so I'm listening.

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

EnjoyTheRide

Future running partner.

posted: 11/15/2008 at 7:09 PM

I am not familiar with the program you are using. But I do know that when a lot of authors say beginner they often mean someone who has probably been running for a while (at least a year) but not necessarily racing seriously. The speed training is not necessarily a bad thing, it will help you run faster. You may just need to take the speed training a little more easily then what the schedule suggests for right now. Slowly work your way into more serious speed training. And yes the focus should be more on slowly adding miles at comftorble paces, and doing it consistently. Kudos for listening to your body because this will allow you to stay more consistent. What I would consider starting for speed is just a few striders after a shorter run, just to get used to running faster, without straining too hard. You seem to be on the right track otherwise.

JWU42

Forever Learning

posted: 11/15/2008 at 7:19 PM

By all means trust your instinct and skip the speedwork. Tempo and Hills (not speedwork per se) would be worth trying again if you are feeling good. I would keep track sessions out for now.

slowgino

posted: 11/15/2008 at 9:04 PM

Yes, you would almost certainly be better off ditching the speedwork and replacing it with a nice easy longer run. This will be your first marathon. Your goals include losing over 40 pounds. Both of these will be best served by building your aerobic base and getting your system to the point where you can log those easy miles and build your endurance. FWIW, 37 years ago when I started running I was doing 2 to 2 1/4 miles in the evening and I thought I'd never be able to to go longer. Also I wasn't losing any weight like the books said I should. Then I switched to running in the morning before breakfast, and running slower. Suddenly I was at 3 1/2 - 4 miles and I lost 10 lbs in 2 months without even trying. For more ideas about building a good aerobic base before doing any speedwork, check out the Low HR Training user group (HR = heart rate.) Take it easy, and good luck with your training. Gino

quotidianlight

posted: 11/15/2008 at 9:44 PM

Quote from slowgino on 11/15/2008 at 9:04 PM:

Yes, you would almost certainly be better off ditching the speedwork and replacing it with a nice easy longer run. This will be your first marathon. Your goals include losing over 40 pounds. Both of these will be best served by building your aerobic base and getting your system to the point where you can log those easy miles and build your endurance. FWIW, 37 years ago when I started running I was doing 2 to 2 1/4 miles in the evening and I thought I'd never be able to to go longer. Also I wasn't losing any weight like the books said I should. Then I switched to running in the morning before breakfast, and running slower. Suddenly I was at 3 1/2 - 4 miles and I lost 10 lbs in 2 months without even trying. For more ideas about building a good aerobic base before doing any speedwork, check out the Low HR Training user group (HR = heart rate.) Take it easy, and good luck with your training. Gino

Yeah, so much has changed since I started this process that I forgot to update my profile. When I started running in March I couldn't even run a block and now my long runs feel amazing. I've lost 46 pounds with 27 to go and I just love running so much. My aerobic base feels great but my joints hold me back more than anything. Will the long slow miles help my joints strengthen as well? If I got injured and couldn't run I would probably go crazy! Yet, I don't know... how much discomfort is normal? Maybe I do stop to soon and just don't know, but I'm just scared to pieces after reading about so many sidelined runners who gain weight back. My program peaks at 45 mpw and almost all of the mileage is during the long run. I wonder if that is more the issue than the speed work but regardless, more miles seems to be the consensus. Thank you for all your kind words.

You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here

BeeRunB

posted: 11/15/2008 at 10:00 PM
modified: 11/15/2008 at 10:02 PM

That Coolrunning beginners program is ridiculous. It has a beginner doing a 26 mile long run 3 weeks out from the race. A 24 as well. 3 x 1 mile 5k repeats all over the place. Risky stuff for many, not just beginners. I highly recommend you stay away from doing any training run over 18-20 at this point. Don't do your longest run 3 weeks out, more like 5-7 weeks out. You just started running. The speedwork will probably just end up making you feel overtrained. Build your aerobic system and endurance, that is what will get you to the finish, not the speedwork. The speedwork can come in later marathon when you're trying to improve your time, and your body is ready. I think the Higdon novice plans are a bit more reasonable for a newbie. Go here: http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm That Coolrunning schedule will poop you out and increase the probability of sickness or injury before your race (if you get there). Build slow. I wish you the best. I hope you make it there healthy and sound, and get to the finish! ---Jimmy

First marathon training question: confused (Read 1419 times)