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OHR vs. Adding a Day (Read 1168 times)

    Sorry if this is a topic that's been covered before, but I'm interested to get some opinions from some of you experienced runners. I'm bouncing back from about a year and a half of brutal medial shinsplits via a combination of icing, stretching, custom orthotics, and rebuilding the whole running thing from scratch with the Couch-to-5k program. I'm starting the last week of the program (and so far so good) which means I'll be at 30 mins, 3x per week. The original plan was to move on to the One Hour Runner program (sticking with 3x per week, but building up to a long run of 60 mins) and then after that, adding a fourth day to my week. So my question is this: should I stick with this plan, or add a fourth day now before increasing any of my runs beyond 30 mins? I should add that I'm running every other day (rather than a weekly schedule), so it often works out that I run 4x per week anyway... I guess the question becomes whether I should start attempting back-to-back days. What say you? Mm?

    "Because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn.  Climb that goddamn mountain."

    Jack Kerouac

    Slo


      Just an opinion. Base on your log and what you described......I think both. IF......you feel you've given yourself sufficient time to heal. I would most definetly start increasing some of your runs beyond 30 mins. Adding in an extra day with just a short 15 - 20 min run is a great way to increase your volume. Good Luck !
      TedsHead


      Team Me, Myself & I

        Definitely not an experienced runner, I just wanted to reply to say I know how you’re feeling both with injury and miles. I am in a similar situation and am debating to add another day (today ~2mi 10min pace) this week. You seem to be better at pacing yourself; I still might be going to fast. I have anterior tibialis tendonitis, this of course is just a guess, it hasn’t been professionally diagnosed. I will go to an orthopedic if this attempt of self rehabilitation fails. I have had it for the last two years and would probably be fine if I just built a bigger base before adding speed to my runs, as I never really did any ‘easy’ runs, they were all tempo. Hopefully slowing down and adding miles, not speed, will work. I’m trying to work up to running 3 days & 13mi/week by Feb ‘09. Sorry to post my problems in your thread w/o being able to offer any sound advice. If forced to reply (for no good reason), I would keep alternating between 3 & 4 days a week and just add a small amount of time to one of the days each week and see how you handle it. I’m sure you’ll get some great advice here & end up doing what you know is right. Best of luck to you
          You MUST proceed from a position of caution....you're coming off of an injury and so you definately dont want to jump into it and get injured again -- BAD BAD Sad Sad Sad Angry Angry -When I started back (after an injury), I ran every other day.....for a few months (normally 2 and sometimes 3 miles)...so some weeks I ran 3 times and some weeks 4 times... -After a few months (I think 3 full months), I changed to 4x per week.....Tue, Thurs, Sat and Sun.......again 2 to 3 miles per run.... -Waited a few months and then added Wed.....Tue, Wed, Thrus, Sat and Sun (still 2 or 3 miles per run), and then slowly started adding one mile per week (every other week) as I would rather error on the side of caution..... Additionally, if you are adding a day....then dont add mileage -- if your adding mileage, then dont add any days (either/or here at first) and be careful not to try to run too fast...make sure its an easy managable pace (easy an managable pace means slow enough that when you are finished, you feel like you could to it again and you look forward to your next run -- no race pace, intervals, tempo run or any of that fancy stuff for a while) cause you want to get toughened up enought to take the pounding....tempo runs, intervals and all that stuff will come later (when you're up to about 30 MPW or so)... I recommed that when you get up to 5 days per week...you guard your two days off religiously for about a year or so, to make sure you are getting some rest and taking some of the stress of your legs......but you should be able to continue to slowly add more miles... This may not directly answer your question, but it's what worked for me, so if you decided to proceed something like I did, perhaps it will work for you also..... Smile Big grin Wink Tongue Clowning around

          Champions are made when no one is watching


          Future running partner.

            My vote is for OHR. You'll benefit more right off the bat by extending your long run, slowly. Once you are able to complete a an hour non stop, the 30 minute runs will feel easy, and to add a 4th day won't feel like that big of a deal at that point. There is also more benefit to overall fitness by running varying distances and paces on a daily basis, as apposed to just running the same distance and pace everyday. If you just run 30 minutes all the time you'll get good at running for 30 minutes (5k), but not as much for anything else (10k or more). If you can get yourself to run an hour even if it's just once a week. You will improve in the 5k race and 10k race.
              It may depend on what floats your boat and *your* recovery times, but I increased duration before increasing frequency. I went from 3 days/wk to every other day to very briefly at 4day/wk (didn't feel right) to 2 on/1 off. But I didn't start increasing frequency beyond every other day until my normal runs were 1-2 hrs long. BUT, I like to go long and get away from the trailhead. Longer runs enable me to mentally escape and have fun playing on different trails. More freqent, shorter runs keeps me closer to trailhead where the trails aren't as much fun and likely to be muddier or icier. I feel chained with short runs. The way I increased from no consecutive days to sometimes 2 days together to sometimes 3 days together tended to be something in life forced a minor change. I then found that 2 days in a row was tolerable, but didn't do it often, then ultrmately changed to 2 days in a row almost all the time. I'm going through the same thing with 3 days in a row now. I've found I can handle it - occasionally - but not at the point where I can make a steady diet of it. I'm working toward the idea of 5days/wk - 3 on / 1 off/ 2 on / 1 off. My "off" days may include xt or trail building or whatever, so may not be rest days all the time. Again -it's at least partly what fits your life style and interests. Some folks like the regularity of frequent runs. Others like the idea of playing for longer times rather than getting kicked outr just after entering candy store.
              "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                Thanks for the advice, everybody... it appears that the general consensus is that I should stay on the conservative side of things while increasing the length of one or more of my runs. So I think I will probably stick with the original plan of following OHR every other day, and perhaps look into the whole 2-days-in-a-row thing toward the end of the program. MTA: Sorry to hear you've been having some similar problems, TedsHead... best of luck to you. And yes, I am slowly learning to pace myself; this is an ongoing battle. It is so much harder to keep one's easy runs easy than one would guess...

                "Because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn.  Climb that goddamn mountain."

                Jack Kerouac

                  I just recently started running 3 to 4 days a week. I use to run 6/7 .......go figure Big grin. I increased the length of my runs, I now try to run 20km at a time everytime. Rather than the avg 10 a day I use to do. It's an experiment I'll try over the winter and I'll re-assess in the spring. I figure there is more benefit to running longer and resting a day in between. I am over 50, and I think I just can't recover as quick as the younger people. By the way I see you're from Ontario. Consider joining this group http://www.runningahead.com/groups/GTA/ for local info. We could use the new blood. Anyone Else want to pretend you're from Ontario is welcome as well Big grin Wink

                  "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

                    I started running to years ago, but since january 2008, I didn't run much till august. I (re)started then with a program similar to C25K, and then an 3days/week scheme similar to OHR. But now my son wants to start running too. I found a '3K in 6Weeks' program for kids that he is doing now, and I use two of his weekly trainings as a warmup myself. His third run is an extra run for me, but at this moment it is still very easy running/walking for 20 minutes. For me this seems to work very good, but until now, I'm completely injury-free, so maybe you should be more careful than I am...

                    Running in Belgium
                    Ann

                     

                     

                     

                      I would like to reiterate what John A said... in a slightly different way. Running breaks the body down... you get stronger through repeated cycles of stress and rest... the body adapts... gets stronger... Now this is a balance because if you provide more stress than the body can repair then eventually it will break. Even if it is just a little bit too much, over time it will take its toll. So how can you break yourself. -- in no particular order -- 1.) Too many miles in one day 2.) Too many miles in one week ok that is the simpler version people can agree on.. but look at two other factors: intensity and frequency. Increasing intensity (running faster) arguably does more damage so would require more healing time. Increased frequency reduces the time for healing. 3.) run too fast ** not run easy enough ** 4.) run too frequently 5.) not rest enough All that said... if you adding another day is stressfull in itself... and you should be carefull about increasing milage by adding another day! My experience is that when I added another day... (going from every other to 4 days a week.... from 4 days a week to 5... ) that it worked best (without injury) to do so by dividing my weekly millage across the added day... Ex... 15 miles per week in 3 days (4,5,6).. perhaps when you add a forth you go to (3,3,4,5) then work back up to (3,3,4,6)... (3,3,5,6). So the whole thing IMHO boils down to this.... How much training can you do and fully recover from it?
                        . I guess the question becomes whether I should start attempting back-to-back days.
                        IMO as soon as you can wake up the next morning and have no soreness from the previous day. As soon as you can finish your normal easy workout and FEEL like you could repeat it right there on the spot.
                          IMO as soon as you can wake up the next morning and have no soreness from the previous day. As soon as you can finish your normal easy workout and FEEL like you could repeat it right there on the spot.
                          I couldn't have said it better myself (and in fact, I dont think I did). From simply a personal point of view --- In my case, I like to run at least 5 days per week, even if its less miles (per day). I'd rather run 3 miles 5 x per week to equal 15, then to run 5 miles 3 x per week to equal 15 cause I feel like I make more progress if I run more days (and it makes me feel good too). Big grin Big grin Big grin Other people surely feel differently......and I cant/won't argue their logic or thoughts....there are lots of ways to do it.....I only offer my approach because it has worked so well for me.

                          Champions are made when no one is watching

                            Thanks, jsobo, seems like good advice... And also addresses my question of exactly how to work a fourth day in (when I get to it). For example, it seems a bit silly to go out and run for 5 or 10 minutes and then pack it in; I like the idea of redistributing the weekly mileage. So if I were hypothetically to go from 4, 5, 6 to 3, 3, 4, 5, would you recommend that the back-to-back days be the two 3's? Or would you suggest treating the first 3 as a recovery run from the 6?

                            "Because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn.  Climb that goddamn mountain."

                            Jack Kerouac

                              I would recommed the back to back days being a 3 then a 4...or a 3 then a 5... T-3 T-4 S-3 S-5 or T-3 T-5 S-3 S-4 or something like that........but a full rest day after your longer run -- like if you add a 6 and eventually a 7

                              Champions are made when no one is watching

                              jb944


                              Chicago RnR 1/2 Marathon

                                I'm not the experienced runner - I have similar problems with tendinitis. I spent almost 3 months in PT at the beginning of the year, and I don't want to repeat that again. After I finished OHR I tried adding a 4th day and had problems with my leg. My body wants at least one day off between runs. I'm not interested in racing, but I needed some program to keep me motivated, so I found a half marathon run/walk training program that has me running just 3 days a week. The experienced runners on here will probably laugh at this, because it is a 26 week program, but I'm on W6 with no problems. It is set up with 4 week "phases." You build for 3 weeks (very slowly) and then take a cut back week. I'm slow, but I don't care. When I started C25K I could barely run 1 minute. Now I'm looking forward to Saturday's 5 mile run. So, my advice is to listen to your body and if you can't do back to back days, don't worry about it. MTA: I run Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday (long run), so I have Sunday and Monday as rest days after the long run.
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